Help with my grandad's Service Record please

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by Sharon Murray, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. Sharon Murray

    Sharon Murray Junior Member

    Hi there,

    I have recently received my grandad's service records which I have spent some time trying to decipher using the list of abbreviations that came with it, and piecing it together with what my mother already knew of her father's time in the war, which isn't very much.

    From his Service Pay Book, we know he was in the RASC, served in North Africa between Dec 1942 and Dec 1943, and was discharged because of ill-health shortly afterwards. From his Service Record I have discovered he was assigned to the MPFC, and was with the First Army, and that the reason for his discharge was chronic bronchitis. My mother recalls that he went to war with a head of dark hair, but when he returned his hair was totally white!

    I would like to understand more of the detail in his Service Record, so that I can try and find out more about what sort of conditions could have affected him so badly. I would also like to understand Service Records better generally, and would appreciate some help in understanding some of the entries.

    I have attached images highlighting those areas that I don't understand, and listed my questions below:

    First though, before I get on to his Service Record, in my grandad’s Service Pay book, it says that he enlisted at Glasgow. This is a great puzzle to us as my grandad lived and worked all his adult life in Salford, and my mother has no recollection of him ever having gone to work away at any time. Would his call-up papers have directed him to sign up there, even though he lived in Salford?

    My questions about my grandad's Service Record are as follows:
    Card 1
    1. My grandad was born in County Dublin, Ireland, and is noted as Dual Nationality, but what do the initials FS stand for?

    Card 2
    2. There is a code (L003-02) against "Occupational Classification". Elsewhere it says he was a Bricklayer's Labourer, but is there a list anywhere that explains what these occupational codes are?

    3. Where is location "H"? Again is there a list I can consult anywhere?

    4. Can anyone explain what “Remustered Issuer” means please?

    Card 3
    5. I know what ITC, TRN BTN and Mob Cen mean, but how can I find out the locations indicated by the numbers -- 41 ITC, 8 TRN BTN, 4 Mob Cen.?

    6. CSD is mentioned 3 times, and all at locations in this country - Ludlow, Rhyl and Chester. What do the initials CSD stand for? (These are not in the list of abbreviations).

    Card 4
    7. There are a number of other abbreviations which I can’t find on the list provided:- E/R; I.G.B.D; G.R.T.D. Can anyone explain what these mean please?

    8. At the bottom of card 4 there is a section headed "Serial Numbers of Amendment Slips and dates dispatched to CCI". Does anyone know what this section is about and what CCI stands for please?

    Sheet 2
    9. On Sheet 2, in the Military History Sheet – can anyone decipher the words on the middle row, under the heading Country please?

    Sheet 3
    10. On Sheet 3 it refers to the “Port of Embarkation”. Is there anyway of finding out which port that was?

    11. Also on Sheet 3 there are a couple of entries that look like:
    CHG(?) 2nd Tech(?)
    BNAF 124/43
    And
    Fund(?) 15.5 – 11.6.44
    Sup Fund (?) 12 – 20.6.44
    Can anyone explain these references please?

    12. Finally on Sheet 3 there is an entry that looks like
    No ducy (?) evidence
    Can anyone help interpret this please?

    Thank you very much,
    Sharon
     

    Attached Files:

  2. chick42-46

    chick42-46 Senior Member

    Hi Sharon and welcome. I hope you find what you're looking for. Help will be along soon!

    In the meantime, on your question 12, I think this is "No docy evidence", meaning "no documentary evidence", presumably in relation to your grandad's medical disability at 100%.

    Cheers

    Ian
     
  3. Sharon Murray

    Sharon Murray Junior Member

    Thank you. :)

    I'm really hoping someone can help me out with some of these questions.
     
  4. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hello

    BNAF = British North Africa Force I believe

    10. On Sheet 3 it refers to the “Port of Embarkation”. Is there anyway of finding out which port that was?


    It maybe recorded in his units war diary-They sometimes give the port ie Southampton etc and the ship the unit sailed on.
     
  5. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    FS = Free State
     
  6. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    Dec 1942 embarkation - a lot were sailing at that time from Glasgow/Liverpool, but checking with the diaries would confirm
     
  7. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    Country - clearly North Africa is mentioned. The codes are obscure to me..
     
  8. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello Sharon,

    41 ITC (No. 41 Infantry Training Centre) was at Deepcut Barracks, nr Camberley, Surrey.

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  9. bofors

    bofors Senior Member

    Hi

    The only convoy I could find on this site for Dec 42 is this one-

    WS Convoys

    So it is possibly the one he went on. But it stops at Durban, so unless there was another convoy to North Africa I could be wrong. Sorry I dont know how to use that site!!

    regards

    Robert
     
  10. Sharon Murray

    Sharon Murray Junior Member

    Thank you all for your responses.
    Drew5233 - I would love to get a copy of the relevant war diary, but at the moment I don't know enough about where my grandad was - hopefully once I can understand his service record better, I will be able to work out which diary I need.

    I know my grandad was in North Africa, and according to the comment on his service record, I think he was attached to the First Army. I know he was in the RASC and was in the MPFC (Mobile Petrol Filling Company) - would the war diary I need be for the RASC, the MPFC or do I need to find out which part of the First Army he was attached to? Would the diary mention the RASC anyway as I understand they were non-combatant?

    Bexley84 - thank you for interpreting FS for me. That makes sense.

    Steve Mac - thank you for the information about 41 ITC. I still don't understand why my grandad would have enlisted at Glasgow, and his being sent almost straight away to Surrey is even more bewildering. Does anyone have any ideas about this? Was it normal for new recruits to be sent all over the country like that?

    Can anyone else help with the other locations please - 8 TRN BTN, 4 Mob Cen, and also 9 MPFC?

    Bofors - the website looks very interesting. I'll need to spend some time looking at all the information. What I have been told about my grandads journey to North Africa is that apparently the ship he was on was torpedoed and my grandad spent several hours in the water (or possibly in a life boat) before being rescued and taken I think to Algiers. I've done a search on the internet and the SS Strathallen seems to match with the details, assuming my grandad embarked at Clyde. The Strathallen set sail on 11th Dec and was hit on 21st. I don't know what convey she was in though.

    Can anyone help with thoise abbreviations on Card 4 please, and also with any information that might help me identify which war diary I need to find?

    Thank you all again for your help so far.
    Sharon
     
  11. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

  12. Sharon Murray

    Sharon Murray Junior Member

    Thank you for finding those links Mike L. The book is fs fascinating. I have bookmarked both links so I don't lose track of them.

    This really is such a helpful forum. Thank you all so much for taking the time to look at my grandad's service record and help me work it out.

    I was talking about this last night with my partner, and we wondered whether CSD could mean something like Combat Supplies Depot? (Canteen Supplies Division comes up a lot on a google search, but that seems to be connected with India). All the CSDs mentioned are in Britain - Rhyl, Ludlow and Chester. According to my mum, around the time grandad was discharged due to ill health he spent some time in a cottage hospital in Hawarden which is very close to Chester (where I now live by the way). Could CSD have something to do with hospitals perhaps?

    I'm also now wondering if 9 MPFC could be the number of the company he was with, rather than indicate a location like the other numbers seem to? Should I be trying to find 9 MPFC war diaries?

    Thank you all again,
    Sharon
     
  13. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    ...Steve Mac - thank you for the information about 41 ITC. I still don't understand why my grandad would have enlisted at Glasgow, and his being sent almost straight away to Surrey is even more bewildering. Does anyone have any ideas about this? Was it normal for new recruits to be sent all over the country like that?
    Sharon

    Hello Sharon,

    Deepcut Barracks was the garrison of the Royal Army Ordnance Corps (RAOC) and the school of Ordnance. In 1942 when the REME absorbed most of the RAOC repair function, the RAOC in turn took over the RASC's vehicle organisation function.

    Your grandad was in the RASC and No 41 ITC at Deepcut is probably where people of his trade were trained.

    I have no idea why he enlisted at Glasgow, but he must have been there at the time.

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  14. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

  15. Sharon Murray

    Sharon Murray Junior Member

    Steve,


    Thank you very much for the extra information about 41 ITC and for throwing some light on CSD. Command Supply Depot and the connection with RAOC and vehicle oranisation both fit with him being "Reassessed (?) as Issuer, Prefix T & S (Transport and Supplies?) on Sheet 3. It is really interesting for me to be able to trace my grandad's movements once he enlisted.

    The link to ATD Remembered is also interesting because the person concerned was based for a while at Saighton Camp Chester, which is where my partner's mother, also in the ATS was based. The website gives us another whole subject for us to look into!

    What a fantastic forum this is! :)
    Sharon
     
  16. BrianM59

    BrianM59 Senior Member

  17. Sharon on cards 4 and 5 you ask about E/R1214 these entries in the part II order is usually after the date on the postings column. Ie the clerk updates the soldiers records after the event on the postings column again ie 1214 would probably mean 14th Dec 5 days after he embarked. see the dates previous and after.
    Remember George.
     
  18. Sharon Murray

    Sharon Murray Junior Member

    Thank you both for clarifying these abbreviations. I'm starting to get a clearer idea now of what some of these entries are.

    Thank you all very much for your help. This really is a very friendly and helpful forum. :)

    Any further help on some of my queries would be very welcome, but I'm in a position now I think to go through my grandad's service record and 'translate' it. Thne the next step I think will be to try and get hold of copies of the relevant war diaries.

    Thank you,
    Sharon
     

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