Help with interpreting service record

Hello all, after a long time waiting the National Archives finally gave me my great uncle’s service record. I hope people waiting on theirs get them soon!

I’m trying to understand his record but so many things confuse me, the counted days, dates and transfers, injuries etc.
I don’t understand the order of it all and let alone the writing.
All I ever heard from him and family was that he started at El Alamein and ended in Italy, a handful of stories and a few regiments he’d been with.
Any help would be greatly appreciated,
many thanks.

 

You’ve asked me to look at these papers. It will take a while as you have not posted them in the order of papers that are usually received from MOD or National Archives. As you have posted images rather than a PDF file I’m assuming you received a file from MOD rather than National Archives as they usually send a file in PDF format.

Hopefully other members will chip in.……………

The most important forms you have received are the B103 forms - you have not posted the images in chronological order and have not posted the full images in all cases which makes it difficult to navigate through them. I think there are 5 B103 forms so it will take a while to go through them.

I will start with your image 3586 which shows that your great uncle was called up in February 1942 and posted to 48 Infantry Training Centre (appears to be at Parkhurst Isle of Wight) for basic training.

He spent 4 months at 48 ITC and was then posted to the 2/5th Battalion Queens Royal Regiment (West Surrey). He was posted to Home Details in mid July 1942 as 2/5th Queens went overseas to Iraq in August 1942 (via South Africa & India). Home Details looked after the unit administration and kit in U.K. for a short time and either went on to join the Battalion overseas or were posted elsewhere.

He appears to have been posted to 13 ITC - presumably on the staff - at what appears to be Maidstone in mid October 1942 and posted to 13th (Holding) Battalion Queens. He is there for a month before being selected for service overseas and being sent abroad as a reinforcement to the Royal West Kent Regiment. The draft appears to have gathered at Plymouth before being sent to Glasgow (by rail?) to join a ship.

He arrives in North Africa - given his subsequent posting to 6th RWK - likely in Algeria in early December 1942. He is sent to the Infantry Base Depot where reinforcements were held pending a posting to a fighting Battalion.

He was posted to 6th Battalion Royal West Kent Regiment 12th January 1943. They had landed with 78th Division in Algeria early November 1942 as part of 1st Army in Operation Torch. By early January they had been fighting in Tunisia for a month.

His B103 record continues chronologically in your image 3587. He is only with 6 RWK for a very short time. There is some information redacted - presumably details of an injury/illness leading to his admission to a medical facility. He is transferred to 19 Casualty Clearing Station 1st February 1943 for a few days. There is an entry on his B102 (Image 3590) that he returned to 6 RWK 4th February 1943. The next B103 entry reflects his return to the Infantry Base Depot in late February presumably as he was no longer fit for the infantry role as I see on another form (Image 3583)that he had been medically downgraded to medical category B1 on 1st February 1943.

He is posted to 18th Army Group Signals in mid March 1943. I suspect he performed a defence/force protection/guard role in this unit as he does not appear to have been a trained signaller. 18th Army was created after 1st Army and 8th Army “joined up” for the last few weeks of the North Africa campaign.

In early April 1943 he is fined 7 days pay for being found “out of bounds”. The army made certain areas out of bounds for various reasons - often places where soldiers could “rest & relax” with the local population.

In late May 1943 he is admitted to 94 British Hospital - then at Algiers - for a week or so before being returned to his unit.

I will try and return to this later today.

Steve

 

A

 

Thank you Steve, much appreciated! The 2ghq got me confused, I thought maybe the 18th army group signals was a ruse for phantom. I know nothing about reading into all of this. I’ll upload the file I was given, it all came in the order I took pictures from. You’re a good man! Thank you

 

Hi,

Thanks for attaching the National Archives file.

I can see you were making posts on the forum a couple of years ago - and more recently - on the assumption he was with Phantom and with 6 RWK at Monte Cassino in Italy. His B1 medical classification would mean he would perform a support role rather than an infantryman’s role in the front line.

As you’ve likely now realised it’s best to wait for the service record to arrive - saves going down too many research “rabbit holes”. I’ll try and go through the file and post updates later today and over the weekend.

Steve

 

Thank you!

 

The B103 continues in your image 3584 and commences with an undated award (likely early 1944) of the Africa Star and 1st Army Clasp. His “parent” regiment is shown as RWK but he is shown as X1 which means he is attached elsewhere - in his case to 18 Army Group Signals. It would appear that he worked on Sicily and or Italy during 1943/44/45 but as he was posted to a support unit it is impossible to be definite on dates unless you consult 18 & 15 AG Signals War Diaries.

He appears to be with that unit until he is transferred to 15 Army (Group?) Signals in January 1945. 15 Army was the title of the joint British & American Armies in Italy. The following 2 entries on his record relate to his army pay status - reclassified Class 1 Sept 1944 then Class 1A in early in 1945.

He was an early candidate for home leave in March 1945 when he was granted 28 days leave in U.K. (plus travel time) departing from Naples (likely by ship as he is out of theatre over 7 weeks) under the LIAP scheme - leave in addition to Phython. Phython was a scheme to repatriate servicemen who had served overseas for a lengthy period - originally four years but reduced to 3 years by early 1945. As an aside my uncle went overseas with 78th Division in October 1942 but did not receive his LIAP until October 1945.

Your uncle was posted to 2nd GHQ Signals when he returned to Italy and his B103 continues on your image 3585. The first entry on that image states that he ceased to be entitled to Mediterranean (Ration) Allowance for the period he was absent from Italy - 1.3.45 until 26.4.45. The allowance was reinstated 27.4.45.

He proceeds on a second period of LIAP in March 1946. It would have been for a further 28 days plus travel time but on this occasion he likely travelled by train from Northern Italy to one of the channel ports. Each rail journey likely took 2 full days so he may have been absent from Italy for around 5 weeks. His return date is not recorded.

The next entry shows he was admitted to 92 British Hospital, Naples 22nd June 1946 and discharged 1st July 1946.

The final entry on this image shows he departed Italy for the last time under the Phython scheme 21st July 1946 to take up a home posting. He was no longer entitled to the Med Allowance. He returned to U.K. by train.

More to follow…….

Steve

 

Your Image 3588 is his final B103. It contains 2 entries - his posting to 13th Holding Battalion RWK 23rd July 1946 on his return from Italy followed by his posting to Y7 list in December 1946 - the administrative posting that covered his period of terminal leave before his discharge from the army to Class Z Reserve 13/3/47. Personnel were discharged in strict Age & Service Group classification order. He was in Group,44.

All service personnel received 56 days terminal leave plus an overseas service leave entitlement on the basis of 1 days leave for every month (or part of) served abroad between Sept 39/May 45 (Sept 45 for those serving in the Far East). He looks to have accrued about 33 additional leave days.

Moving on to the National Archives package of documents -

I have looked at the 2 B102 forms (4 documents) within the package. The B102 was an index card held centrally on which brief details were recorded from other Army forms.

Image 12 in the NA package is the front of the 1st B102 card. It mostly contains personal details. Image 13 contains details of some - not all - of the information recorded on the B103. There are a few differences/inconsistencies between B102 and B103 -

Image 13 B102 shows his posting to 13th ITC September 1942 followed by his posting to 13th Holding Battalion Queens Regiment October 1942. It also notes his 3 week return to 6 RWK 4th Feb 1943 - on discharge from 19 CCS - before his posting to the Infantry Base Depot in late February for redeployment.

Image 3 in the package is the front of his 2nd B102. Towards the bottom left it is endorsed SG Plus 3 - another reference to post war Army pay. Bottom right shows he served overseas 3 years 238 days. There don’t appear to be any inconsistencies in the endorsements on the rear of the form.

Image 1 in the package is the file cover and Image 2 is his discharge testimonial written by the OC 13 Holding Battalion RWK.

Image 5 is an almost blank form commenced while he was on Class Z reserve. It simply records his discharge from further service liability in February 1954. Image 6 is blank.

I will comment on Images 7 & 8 - the 4 sided Record of Service Paper - later. That will complete my summary of his service file.

Steve

 

Thank you Steve, I have no idea how you get all that info from the record.
I had a little smile when I saw the out of bounds week’s pay ha.
Your uncle was in the 78th too! Which regiment was he from?
The story was that my great uncle was in Sicily and Italy, just out of interest which piece of information gave you an idea that he was in Sicily?

Could Phantom being classified at the time have any bearing on the paper work when he was with 15th signals and 18th Army Group signals?
On his record he joined 2Ghq when they were declassified.
I can’t understand why he’d join Phantom at that stage of the war.
Hope you have a nice evening,
Really appreciate your help!

 

Image 7 in the National Archives file -

On the right side is Page One of the 4 sided Army Form 200D. It contains personal details of the recruit. There are 2 strings of numbers/letters at top left. The top string is the National Identity Number gleaned from the 1939 Register and used to issue the National Identity Card. It became the National Health number when the NHS was created in 1948.The lower number is the man’s national registration number issued to males between 18 and 41 (later extended to 51) years of age when they registered at their local Labour Exchange when their age group was called to register for conscription.

One the left side is Page 4 of the Form 200d. As you can see most of it is blank apart from the endorsement showing his discharge date to Class Z Reserve and the identity of his next of kin.

Image 8 -

On the right hand side is Page 3 of the Form 200d booklet - Statement of Services. The entries towards the top of the form regarding his postings duplicate the entries in his B103.

There is a “box” in the middle of the form. It was used in the 1944 Army “census” held to plan for the structured demobilisation of the forces after the war. The 44 reflects his Age & Service Group and the 1/281 reflects the length of time he had been overseas in September 1944 - amended to 3/238 in July 1946.

Below that box is an entry confirming his arrival in U.K. 12th March 1945 and his U.K. departure for Italy 16th April. It would appear it took him 10 days to travel each way supporting my previous comment that he likely travelled from Naples by ship.

The next entry notes his second spell of LIAP leave to U.K. 5th March 1946 but does not note his return date.

There is then another “box” noting the service calculations for his war gratuity - usually paid in 3 consecutive monthly payments starting one month after he went on to Class Z reserve.

The next 2 entries reflect the entries on his final B103 stating the date he left Italy and the date he started his terminal leave.

The final entry of “O1637C to RP” is in relation to the despatch of a Form O1637 to the RWK Regimental Paymaster so he could draw his pay while he was on terminal leave.

Finally on the left hand side of Image 8 is page 2 of the 200d. The top portion contains details of his height/weight etc. The next section contains Ministry of Labour employment Codes (also on B102) and notes his civil employment as Pawnbrokers Assistant.

The next section notes his geographical postings but as is often the case doesn’t update the man’s location on posting from North Africa to another Mediterranean location. It’s not unusual to see a failure to update the record to reflect the date of arrival in Italy.

The bottom portion repeats the entries in his B103 regarding the award of Africa Star and 1st Army clasp.

There is a 1983 stamp from the Army Medal Office regarding the issue of his Campaign Medals - 39/45 Star, Africa Star with 1st Army clasp, Italy Star, Defence Medal and War Medal.

Defence Medal has a complicated award criteria. He didn’t qualify through his 9 months Army service in U.K. but if he was in Home Guard (from May 1940) or another civil defence unit from Sept 1939 he may have reached the 3 year qualification period in U.K.. On the other hand if he remained on the North African coastline for a year from May 1943 and only went across to Italy after that time he would’ve qualified for the Defence Medal by that service. He may have qualified through a combination of U.K. service and service in North Africa after May 1943.

No more to come.

Steve

 

Thank you Steve,

I have no idea how you get all that info from the record.

A. Having looked at literally thousands of service records over the years…..I must get out more eh?


I had a little smile when I saw the out of bounds week’s pay ha.


Your uncle was in the 78th too! Which regiment was he from?

A. He served in 360 Battery 136 Field Regiment RA Nov 1940/May 1946. From Algiers to Austria Nov 1942 to May 1945. He had a couple of spells in hospital with illness in Italy - the winters in those mountains were quite harsh.


The story was that my great uncle was in Sicily and Italy, just out of interest which piece of information gave you an idea that he was in Sicily?

A I don’t know for definite - but award of Italy Star covers service in Sicily & Italy (plus Greece and other islands in the Med) Mention of Naples on the B103 re LIAP March 1945 means he was there at that time.

Could Phantom being classified at the time have any bearing on the paper work when he was with 15th signals and 18th Army Group signals?
On his record he joined 2Ghq when they were declassified.
I can’t understand why he’d join Phantom at that stage of the war.

A. I don’t know about RS organisation. Best search the forum for a RS expert.



Hope you have a nice evening,
Really appreciate your help!

A. You’re welcome

 

Thank you Steve, very kind of you! Hugely grateful.