Please can someone help me interpret the attached Service Record. Are you able to find out the squadron number? I tried a TNA search for 30 Wing without any hits. Is 30 Wing a unit of the squadron? I believe he was a navigator on Lancaster’s and at the end of the war suffered a mental breakdown. The relative of my wife remained in hospital all his life. We would really like to find out about his war years and what may have contributed to his breakdown. Thanks Simon
Are you able to provide the section that shows his trade(s) (mustering section of the service record)? Regards Pete
I only got the limited version as he died less than 25 years ago. I can copy the other page tomorrow.Would that help? Thanks Simon
Simon From the limited information available I believe that his initial service was as follows: 08/09/1943: Enlisted 09/09/1943: Placed on reserve (standard RAF practice at the time) 29/07/1944: Called up for service at 31 Wing, 3 Aircrew Reception Centre (Kitting Out, Basic Training) 02/09/1944: Transferred to 30 Wing, 3 Aircrew Reception Centre 24/10/1944: Posted to Aircrew Despatch Centre (awaiting overseas posting) 06/11/1944: Posted overseas His ranks suggest that he qualified in his trade (as yet unknown) in February 1945, which means his training was completed whilst he was overseas. I would be interested to see if others agree with this interpretation and, if I get the chance later, I will look at his overseas postings for you I hope this is a useful start point Regards Pete
This is the period where RAF Aircrew training was being curtailed due to excess numbers of aircrew either at units or coming out of the training system. Typically the period on reserve awaiting placement into the training system was 6 months but in the case of this man it was just short of a year. His first posting to No.3 ACRC was one of the last intakes to enter service at this unit. It was disbanded in August 1944 hence his extended time and reposting to No.30 Wing. I would be surprised if he undertook any further formal aircrew related training and would be wary of any Lancaster related service in the Middle East prior to end of hostilities. Ross
Ross I note from RAF Flying Training and Support Units by Ray Sturtivant that No 3 ACRC was reorganised into No's 30 to 34 Reception and Classification Wings on 1st April 1944. I am assuming that 30 Wing in the service record refers to 30 Wing, ACRC (rather than 30 (Coastal) Wing) ie he remained posted to the ACRC at RAF Regents Park until his posting to ACDC at Heaton Park in October 1944. Is this your interpretation? Regards Pete
Yes No.30 and No.31 were R and C wings acting as higher formations for ACRC units. When No.3 ACRC disbanded at the end of August 1944 the service record shows posting to No.30 Wing. Note the absence of No.3 ACRC title associated with the entry. It was probable that he was on embarkation leave during the admin transfer to No.30 Wing. The promotions section show change of rank from AC2 to T/Sgt in Feb 1945 but this is in a time that is far shorter than normally would be associated with gaining a Nav half wing by usual training route and units. No posting is shown to any Middle East unit associated with aircrew training and none to intermediate ground instruction units or multi engine operational units where conversion training would take place. The reason I am wary of the Nav on Lancasters is that this type was not deployed to the Middle East until several months after hostilities ended and no posting is listed to squadrons that operated the type either in UK or post war M.E. Ross
Thanks again Ross It is a shame that the mustering section is not available at this time so that we can accurately establish his trade; however I also believe that Lancaster navigator is highly unlikely. Simon, I hope this has helped you to gain a better understanding of his service, although it may not necessarily tie in with family thinking. Regards Pete
Thank you all very much for your information. Here is a copy of both pages from the Service Record. I know very little about the RAF so please excuse my ignorance. Can you explain why there is no mention of a squadron number? What are Wing 30 and 31. Are they training units? The postings I interpreted were RAF Ballah, Egypt and RAF Qastina, Gaza / Israel. Do you agree with this? What does the reference 1/ME/ARC on the 18/02/1945 mean. Apologies for deleting the original post attachment but I inadvertently included his name. Due to this being a limited copy there are a number of areas blanked out. Can someone tell me what sections have been blanked out? Thanks again Simon
Simon The wings mentioned on this service record are units within a training unit, in this case, units within the Aircrew Reception Centre (ACRC), where all aircrew started their basic training. The normal training route for aircrew prior to being posted to an operational squadron was ACRC, followed by basic training at an Initial Training Wing, followed by trade training at specialist schools, followed by training on service aircraft with a crew at an Operational Training Unit / Heavy Conversion Unit. The service record suggests that he did not complete training and therefore was never assigned to an operational squadron. To support this, if you look at the top right hand corner of the second page that you posted, it appears to suggest that he was mustered as an "Aircrafthand / Wireless Operator [W.OP AIR]", and then remustered as an "Under Training Air Gunner". It is unclear whether he completed his Wireless Operator training before starting training as an air gunner or whether he failed his W.OP training before starting his air gunner training.The mustering section (which is missing from the service record) may help answer that question. Regards Pete [PS. I think ME/ARC is Middle East, Aircrew Receiving Centre. Furthermore, there was a Gunnery School at RAF Ballah]
Thanks very much for that Pete. Do you have any advice or suggestions as to how I can take this further. It's another 3 years before I can apply for his full service record. Is it worth looking through the TNA records for RAF Ballah and RAF Qastina. He never recovered from the mental breakdown he had in 1945 / 1946 at the age of 22 and I would really like to learn something about what may have triggered this event. Regards Simon
Simon Am I right in assuming that you can't get the next of kin to apply for his record so that the 25 year rule is waived? Regards Pete
Simon Going back to your question regarding the ORBs, I am not sure you will find an answer in them. Normally only the movements of officers are noted so it is unlikely that he will be named. You may find reference to a specific "traumatic" event which may (or may not) have triggered his breakdown but you would need other information to prove beyond doubt that this was the catalyst. I note that the station ORB for Ballah has not been digitised, so it may be worth getting a quote to see how much TNA will charge you for copying the file. Once you have the quote, you should be able to make a judgement on whether to spend the money "on the off chance that it will provide an answer". It is worth noting that these quotes sometimes are £100's [although there are individuals who will copy the files for you for less]. I have not been able to find a station ORB for Qastina. I am sorry that I can't be more positive on this; I am in the middle of decorating so I will put my thinking cap on and see if I can come up with alternatives whilst I roller the walls tomorrow Regards Pete
A little spelling error in TNA's catalog: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4098660 Regards, Dave
Pete / Dave Thank you for that. The TNA is fairly easy for me to get to so I may make a visit next week and get copies of the files. There was just a few other things I wasn’t clear about. What does A.C.1 and A.C.2 stand for – I presume it’s the lowest Rank. Also on the front page I couldn’t quite interpret the following DISCHARGE Date 9-1-47 Para 652 (4B) K.R. & AC1 And again on the 2nd page unit history, to do with the discharge. 24/46 Disch RAF KROQRI 652/4R Cancelled 23/47 What date is this?? 211/ ?? Discharged ?????? 652/ NB 9/1/47. Were you also able to make out the date against the Promotions for T/F/S. Couldn’t make out the month – 17/??/47. I presume T/F/S is Temporary Flight Sergeant. Also, what does the large N.E. stamp mean? Thanks again and hope the decorating goes well. Simon
Simon In response to your questions: AC2 = Aircraftsman 2nd Class, which was the lowest rank. As airmen progressed they were reclassified as AC1 [Aircraftsman 1st Class], then LAC [Leading Aircraftsman]. His promotion to Temporary Sergeant in February 1945 suggests that he may have completed some trade training at this point but, as Ross said previously, they are strange timings. [Temporary in the title just meant that it was "for the duration of the present emergency".) His promotion to Temporary Flight Sergeant also seems strange as it must have been after his discharge on 09/01/1947. Once again, the mustering section of the record may provide the answers. He was discharged under King's Regulations & Air Council Instructions Para 652 (4B) which means that he was "Invalided: physically unfit for air force services". The section in the service record reads: "Ceased to fulfil RAF physical requirements" If I am reading it correctly (but I may be wrong) it looks like he was discharged 09/12/1945, which was then crossed through when he was admitted to the ........... (Telgert?) Military Hospital on 10/12/1945. He was then discharged on 09/01/1947. Others may be able to offer their thoughts on this and/or confirm the name of the hospital. NE = Non Effective (ie not available for posting within the RAF) Regards Pete EDITED TO INCLUDE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
Thanks again Pete. Very interesting. It does seem odd about appearing to be promoted after he was discharged. I could not find a reference to Telgert military hospital on google. Regards Simon
