Help With Grandfathers war records and Paras?

I could use some help form those with an understanding of the WW2 Lingo. My Grandfather appears to have been a lot more brave than we ever imagined of a quiet bloke. He never spoke of the war. In researching the family tree i have come across some documents and i believe they tell me he was part of the 3 Battalion Parachute Reg.

I have a "Record of service" (army form W5258) showing the following.

No. 1631559 Rank Pte Name Paterson. R. B.
a. Regt./Corps - R.A From - 17/10/40 - 5/10/45
b. REgt./Corps - A.C.C From - 6/10/43 - 11/6/46

I also have a release Leave Certificate (army form X 202/A)
Army No. 1631559 Present Rank - PTE
Surname - Paterson
Christian name - Richard B
Unit,Regt. or Corps - A.C.C X(i) 3Bn Parachute Regt.
Called up - 17/10/1940
trade on enlistment - Mill Worker
Trade courses and trade tests passed - "B" CL III
Service Trade - Cook

Stamped 8 Feb 1946 Lieut. Col. Commanding 3rd Parachute Bn
It appears to have then been sent to Aldershot being recieved 8 Apr 1946

I also have his Service book which states he underwent the following training.

Gas test 1/8/42
SLC Trg Brde School E 28/1/42
DM gas chamber 17/9/42
Attended Course Serial no K22/9 from 15 April to 9 July 43 at ECTC Derby Classified Group B Class III Jrodemer(sp.) Cook

Class II Gp B
Passed TT A/a4vs7 10 1944 at ECTC Derby

So can anyone decipher the jargon used? Particually this bit.

A.C.C X(i) 3Bn Parachute Regt.

I would like to know In which part of the Paras he was involved in, Which company if possible and if he was involved in the Arnhem Battles.

thanks in advance.

deb x

 

Hello welcome

ACC might be army catering corps




Ron

 

Are you sure it isn't AAC - Army Air Corps - which was the parent command of the Parachute Regiment.

If it is ACC - Army Catering Corps (seeing as how his trade was Cook) - then he would have been attached to the Battalion / Parachute Regiment.

Otherwise it is better and easier to scan the documents and add them to the thread rather than typing them out. It avoids mistakes and some of the experts on here might spot something that was missed.

I quickly typed his service number into the London Gazette but no hits for gallantry awards etc.


Otherwise good luck in your research


Dave

 

Army Catering Corps tallies with his trade of Cook. If he was on his Class II Cook's course in Oct 1944, I'd be wary of assuming he was at Arnhem (not that I know how long the course was).

The airborne experts here may be able to confirm whether or not he did the parachute course. The ability to jump may not have mattered in the immediate aftermath of Arnhem when they were rebuilding the battalion.

Odd that it only mentions his Class III on his release paperwork when he clearly passed Class II.

Edit: this link suggests the Class III course was 7 weeks, Class II might have been a similar length. ECTC is Emergency Cookery Training Centre (it's not clear if the centres were set up in an emergency, or 'Emergency Cookery' was the subject!)

 

Added Images as requested.

thanks for the help so far! I have ordered his military records.. but they take AGES! sigh.

 

Going off Wiki plus the dates between his Class III & Class II courses it would be fair to presume that he was in Italy with 3PARA in 1943/44 and then when the unit was withdrawn to the UK was when he did the improved skills course.

This would be the time that members of all trades underwent extra training prior to their next operations




The 3rd Parachute Battalion was formed in 1941, from volunteers amongst infantry regiments in the British Army. It became part of the 1st Parachute Brigade, later part of the 1st Airborne Division. The battalion first saw action during the Operation Torch landings, and then further operations in North Africa, by the independent 1st Parachute Brigade. After the Tunisian campaign, the battalion and brigade re-joined the 1st Airborne Division, and took part in Operation Fustian in Sicily, and Operation Slapstick in Italy.

Withdrawn to England with the rest of the 1st Airborne Division, their next mission was during Operation Market Garden and the Battle of Arnhem. During which the battalion was virtually wiped out. Afterwards the battalion was reformed but never saw any further action during the Second World War. The battalion was then assigned to the 3rd Parachute Brigade in the 6th Airborne Division and served with them in Palestine.

 

Added Images as requested.

thanks for the help so far! I have ordered his military records.. but they take AGES! sigh.

Thanks for adding the images, it is a lot easier to put it all together when able to see the originals rather than a typescript.

His service file is the way to go, even if it does take a year or so to arrive depending on how lucky you get.

The unit's war diary will also be useful (someone on here will provide advice on how to access them) - it may take a lot of reading without actually finding him mentioned by name but there may be multiple references to the efforts of the catering staff on operations.

 

Reading this extract about their first operation must refer to an engagement that was the subject of an Alan Ladd movie I watched recently (The Red Beret (retitled Paratrooper for the US release) is a 1953 British war film) -


After completing parachute school, the unit goes on a raid (based on real-life Operation Biting) on the German radar station at Bruneval.

The unit's next operation involves taking and destroying an airfield at Bône during the invasion of North Africa.











The Battalion was formed in September 1941 from volunteers from across the Army at Hardwick in Derbyshire and commanded by Lt Col GW Lathbury. From 500 interviewed by one company only 100 were accepted for training. Before leaving for North Africa with the 1st Parachute Brigade intense parachute and field exercises were conducted to prepare the new battalion for combat.

On the 12th November 1942 the 3rd Battalion captured the German airfield at Bone in Tunisia, the first British Army battalion level parachute operation. They were relieved by 1st Army; thereafter the battalion fought as line infantry for the rest of the campaign. The parachute battle cry Waho Mohammed allegedly began with the 3rd Battalion, stemming from this period in North Africa. It was used as a recognition cry when operating in close country and was adopted by the 1st Brigade and the other parachute battalions.

During the parachute assault on the Primosole Bridge in Sicily on 13th July 1943 the 3rd Battalion drop was scattered alongside that of the 1st and 2nd Battalions. A two-day hard fought action developed at the bridge until they were relieved by the sea-landed Durham light Infantry. The Battalion lost 250 all ranks killed, wounded and missing, one man in two. On 9th September the Battalion landed by sea at Taranto Harbour Italy and moved north up the east coast to Barletta, with little opposition. By early December they returned to the UK to prepare for the invasion of Europe.

After 15 cancelled operations following D-Day the 3rd Battalion dropped at Arnhem on 17th September during the MARKET-GARDEN airborne offensive mounted in Southern Holland. Part of C Company reached the Arnhem Bridge and joined Lt Col Frost’s 2nd Battalion. The rest were blocked with heavy casualties and fell back to Oosterbeek where the 1st British Airborne Division was destroyed in an epic nine day stand. Ground forces from XXX Corps failed to link up. The remnants of the battalion were withdrawn to England.

During the first post-war deployment in Palestine beginning in 1945 the remnants of 2 and 3 PARA were combined to form the 2/3rd Parachute Battalion,

 

Deb,

His MOD service records will give you the true picture of his postings. What confused me initially was the date for the ending of his service with the RA. You've typed in 5/10/45 when it should actually be 5/10/43 according to the Record of Service scan. Are there any leave entries in his Service Book as they sometimes coincide with returns from campaigns, although it still won't help with identifying units? The Arnhem guys on here are usually pretty good at picking out names from their various lists and records. Did he ever mention being in Denmark or Palestine after the war? I take it you don't have any wartime photos of him.

Here's a site devoted to the ACC. It doesn't contain much info on the war years.

The Sustainer - An Army Catering Corp Website

Regards ...

 

As requested. grin

 

I will see if there is any info on this man in the Duxford Ringway records......It is clear from these that our man was Army Catering Corps certainly attached to the 3rd Parachute Battalion at the time of his discharge.....I am fairly confident in saying that not all the cooks were para trained and also as he was on a 'catering course' in October 1944 it is unlikely he was at Arnhem...however once the service records are available this should prove it one way or the other as his records should denote something like emplaned for service in NW Europe 17.9.1944 and his overseas service list will also back this up.
I have a copy of the 3rd Battalion war diary for North Africa which was extensively used in the research of the book on the 1st Para Brigade in North Africa and I cannot recall any mention of the catering staff in it.....although I seem to recall some embarkation lists for one or two of the battalions and so will check...the original is readily available at the NA at Kew....but as he didn't join the ACC until October 1943 if he went straight to the 3rd Para Btn they were in Italy at this time....

 

Here's my interpretation of the leave record which like most I've seen is not complete:

4/4/45 - 19/4/45 .... 14 Day Embark.
4/6/45 - ................... 28 " "
10/8/45 - 13/8/45 ... 3 days

I may have got the second line wrong, it's hard to make out. My Father's book uses the word "Dis.Emb" to describe a 14 day leave on returning from Normandy. The 1st Brigade along with 3 Para were sent to Denmark after the war to supervise the surrender of the Germans stationed there. I'm not sure of the exact dates for that operation.

So that's probably not very helpful. I was hoping to see some dates that could be tied in with 3 Para in 43 and 44.

Cheers ...

 

The 1st PB didn't leave for Denmark till about 10th May 1945 and so embarkation leave in April 1945 sounds like a 'Far East' posting......

 

AM,

I think you are right about 1 PB. I've come across other accounts that say the entire 1st Parachute Brigade went to Denmark. Otherwise it's quite confusing sorting out what happened to the various 1st Airborne Division units at war's end.

Live and learn ...

 

Regret no record of this man going through Ringway in 1943 or 1944 or indeed at any time 1940 to 1945.....I suspect your grandfather was as we used to say a penguin......one of the guys in the unit not allowed to jump.....When the service recrods turn up it will confirm exactly what he did but the evidence is leading me to say he was attached to the 3rd Parachute Battalion as a cook at some point but a non-jumper and highly unlikely to have been at Arnhem...Sorry.....

 

No need to be sorry!

He did what he did and what ever that was i am proud as punch of him!

My Granddad was one of the most gentle quiet shy in some ways man you would ever meet. Never once mentioning the war in any way not even the boring bits, nor people he met during that time. he just wanted to forget the whole thing happened, bless him.

Thankyou all for your insights and research i shall try and remember to pop bk when his records finally turn up.

Deb x

 

Right then My Loverly info folks. War record arrived! Not bad for timing.. ONLY 7 Months! was expecting a year! LOL Ok Images!

 

Cant work out how to turn them :S Plus they are huge! :S lol

 

Ok Managed to turn them around. YAY. Now hopefully someone will make them understandable for me. xxx

 

His date of embarkation (14th August 1944) and disembarkation (4th October 1944) puts him on the Seaborne Tail for Operation Market Garden

John