Help with German Records

Discussion in 'Axis Units' started by Bemused, Apr 15, 2020.

  1. Bemused

    Bemused Junior Member

    My cousin has sent off to the German Archives for info about her paternal grandfather who died in WW2 in the German Army.
    She has received 3 pages from them. with the help of Google and my very rusty German we have managed to "translate" most of it but could do with some help on the specifics.
    Page 1, we have sorted the "Notifying Person" its his daughter.
    Could do with some help on the "Truppenteil".
    The stuff with the dates seems to be when correspondence/queries were answered, including the last one which describes where he is buried (more on this later).
    Page 2, the top bit is more from the location of his burial we think, any help on improving this bit will help.
    The entry by 10.12.54 we think is confirmation of him being somewhere on 14.1.45, with the bit underneath showing date of death as 24.1.45
    The rest is a mystery.
    Page 3, what/where is "Pol.Schule Weichselstadt"
    Is Thorn 3.Kamp Stalag XXA?
    We understand the bit about admitted to hospital 23.1.45, and dying on 24.1.45 any idea about H.V.P.San.Ber etc
    I have tried to locate the burial site on Google but no luck so far, any help much appreciated.
    Thanks in advance for any help.
    John
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Bemused

    Bemused Junior Member

    It would seem the PDF files I uploaded dont open I will have to try and resize the JPG's and try again
     
  3. Bemused

    Bemused Junior Member

    I dont seem to be able to edit the original post so I am attaching the files here.

    John
    Page 1.jpg Page 2.jpg Page 3.jpg
     
  4. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96

    Last edited: Apr 15, 2020
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  5. Robert-w

    Robert-w Well-Known Member

    Weichsel Stadt was the proposed Germanic capital of Weichselland a proposed province (essentially the Vistula region) of the Central Government which was the German controlled Polish rump. One of Franck's schemes to establish his own "kingdom" - Himmler was not amused

    Suspect the reference is to something else.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2020
  6. hucks216

    hucks216 Member

    He was stationed with 3.Kompanie/Polizei-Schule-Thorn which is now called Toruń and is situated on the Vistula (Weichsel) River in Poland.
    He died in the field dressing station (Heeresverbandplatz) of the Fallschirm-Panzergrenadier-Division 2 'Hermann Göring' and probably buried in a hasty field cemetery used by that unit. His body has never been recovered so it is still laying in his original field grave but the card mentions a general location of where he was buried which says 'Beigesatzt: Gut Kossendorf, 1km nördl.d.Strasse Gostingen-Lissa, 20m. h. Ostseite d. Schlosses i. Park' so 1km north of the Gostingen-Lissa road.

    The first German Lage OST map below shows that area on the 22nd January 1945 so just a day before his injury and two days before his death. The yellow square shows Thorn and the yellow circle shows where he was buried.
    22021945.jpg


    The next Lage OST map from the 27th January, so just 3 days after his death and burial, already shows the area in Russian hands.
    0002a.jpg

    Unfortunately his Volksbund entry only gives the basic details which they would of got from the same source:
    vb.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2020
  7. hucks216

    hucks216 Member

    This is the Lage OST map for 22nd January 1945 again but shows the situation further south. Chances are that the men located in the Polizei-Schule would of been formed in to a battlegroup or sent to a battlegroup and, at least where your paternal grandfather is concerned, fought in this general area. At the time Fallschirm-Panzergrenadier-Division 2 'HG' was part of 4.Panzerarmee so he wouldn't of been that far from them. Again, the yellow circle shows the general area where he was buried.
    22again.jpg
     
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  8. Bemused

    Bemused Junior Member


    Hucks, many thanks for the info, by some luck and black magic I have also managed to locate the area of his grave, Kossendorf is now Kosowo, if my interpretation is correct he is buried 1 Km north of the main road between Gostingen and Lissa (names now different), as you have also said, 20 m on the East side between "Castle" and park. Google maps show a big house in Kosowo so my thinking is that he is in the only bit of ground not built on by the village pond.
    Thanks again, every little bit helps.
     
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  9. hucks216

    hucks216 Member

    It is certainly possible he was buried in the part near the small wood but it all depends on just how accurately the Germans bothered to be with their measurements or how the Polish and/or Russians dealt with the burial site.
     
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  10. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    The Wehrmacht bothered as well as possible for two reasons:
    They did their utmost todocument these places as the Red Army in numerous cases destroyed any signs of them.
    But also the Wehrmacht removed such signs on retreat in an attempt to shroud inforations about losses
    contemporary rules were:
    Bestimmungen über Verlustmeldungen im Kriege, Anlage zum OB-Heft 15-OKM AMA/M Wehr I b B Br. 429 v. 16.02.1940
    Abkommen der HLKO v. 27.07.1929
    Einrichtung des Kriegsgräberdienstes, Denkschrift v. 31.08.1939 (WASt)
    Dienstanweisung für den Wehrmachtgräberoffizier v. 25.01.1942
    Einzeldokumente bei der DD-WASt

    Your cousin may try contacting the former WASt here:
    Bundesarchiv Internet - Personenbezogene Unterlagen militärischer Herkunft bis 1945

    and also:
    Volksbund Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge e. V. | Arbeit für den Frieden
     
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  11. Bemused

    Bemused Junior Member

    My cousin has already been in touch with both organisations, that's where she got the documents in my original post, but many thanks anyway.
    I agree with you bit about accuracy.
     
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  12. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96


    John,
    call it coincidence or luck.

    One of my most important contemporary witnesses Max Holzer for a great escape story from a POW camp in my town investigated locally, was commissioned as a 16 year old boy to join the Hermann Göring Panzer Division in the same area.

    He told me that when they were caught by Russian forces, his officer in a green Wehrmacht uniform was shot immediately, but the boy in blue Luftwaffe uniform was told"<you are a kid and innocent, go away and run home. He did and and really made it home. Unfortunately my friend Max passed away last year.
    He never mentioned the name of his officer to me. But I could ask his son to look into his story again. May be it was P.W. Pulm.

    Stefan.
     
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  13. Bemused

    Bemused Junior Member

    Stefan,
    thanks for this, if you are able to confirm it would be great.

    Thanks

    John
     
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  14. hucks216

    hucks216 Member

    Except Pulm was wounded on the 23rd and died of his injuries in a field dressing station on the 24th. If he'd been executed by the Russians they wouldn't have any burial details.
     
  15. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96

    You mean 23rd January 1945?
     
  16. hucks216

    hucks216 Member

    Yes, wounded on the 23rd January and died of his wounds on the 24th January 1945.
     
  17. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96

    OK.

    I just remembered another on, father in law of a very good friend of mine. Obergefreiter Gottfried Glauch from Chmnitz.

    Before he passed away, I was able to interview him.
    He was involved and wounded in the battle of Huertgen Forest.
    POW in the US and later asPOW woking on a Scotish farm near the place where Rudolf Hess landed.

    Stefan.
     
  18. Robert-w

    Robert-w Well-Known Member

    This is the second time I've seen a reference to someone being a POW in the US before being one in the UK. Was he actually in America or was he a prisoner in a US POW camp in Europe? In the latter case in 1945 the US Army proved signally inept at running some of their camps and they were transferred to British control. If on the other hand the former was the case can you post more details please?
     

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