Help with finding family member info - 6 RTC Egypt 1937 - Williams

Apologies if I am posting in the wrong place but I am new to this.

This is very much a long shot but I am trying to find out further information on my maternal grandfather. I have very little information to go on (photos only) as she was raised by her grandmother then aunt when her mother passed away in 1944/45.

One of the photos I have show him in a team trophy photo (in sports outfit - wrestling? swimming?) in Egypt and the football in the cup reads 6 RTC (their clothing has Egypt written on it). Does anyone know what this regiment went on to be in WWII as I believe from what little I can find, they were merged with another battalion?

The only name I have for him is 'Tiny' Williams. I believe his first name was Ian (or the Welsh variation of this) though cannot locate the photo with this on to get the correct spelling.

Like I say this is a very long shot but was hoping that if I could find out what happened to 6th RTC after 1937 I may be able to try and track down his war records, purely out of interest.

 

Hi Mandi

Welcome

Basics first - do you know if he made it through the war or was he killed? was he a prisoner of war. Date/place of birth, you mention his name had a Welsh spelling. Obviously any little helps especially looking for a Welsh Williams

TD

 

I don't unfortunately and I know, a needle in a haystack.

My mother did have some letters when she was young but when she mentioned them to her aunt they disappeared (presumed burnt). The only thing she had is the photos given to her by one of her Uncles when she married (he'd moved away from the rest of the family). I know that 'Tiny' Williams may also have married as she remembered a couple coming to ask her Grandmother if she could live with them. This was after the war and her mothers death (1945) so I presume he made it (my mother was born 1941).

I have another picture of him in his cricket whites in England/Wales I presume and my mother always said that he is Welsh - but a different spelling to how we would spell Ian. Could do with that elusive photo.

The only thing I came across when trying to find information out is a possible link between the 43rd (6th Royal Northumberland Fusiliers) and 6th RTC. I unfortunately cannot find it now, really should bookmark pages, but if this is correct it would make sense because of the location.

Based on the age of my grandmother at the time, I believe he would have been born around 1917.

 

Hi,

I’m sure you know RTC is the abrreviation for Royal Tank Corps which became Royal Tank Regiment in 1939 so I would assume 6th RTC became 6th RTR who were in Egypt 1939 -

6 RTC in Egypt, 1933/38, Part 1

6 RTC in Egypt, 1933/38, Part 1

6th Royal Tank Regiment - Wikipedia

Wikipedia says -

“Findmypast now has the database "Royal Tank Corps Enlistment Records, 1919-1934" (released in December 2013). These records are available with Britain Full and World Subscriptions, or credits may be purchased. Searching is free, and you can search by keyword (a name is not compulsory)

These records are for other ranks soldiers. No officers are included.
The records cover men who enlisted between 1919 and 1934. The enlistments are either: transfers from the Dragoons, Hussars, Lancers or Machine Gun Corps, direct enlistments and re-enlistments.
The records usually include a combination of the following information

• Service history (Date of enlistment, details of previous service, including any First World War service, service number, campaigns fought in, medals awarded, date of discharge and reason for it) and
• Biographical information (Name, age, date and place of birth, place of residence, occupation, name and address of next of kin, marriage details, names and dates of birth of any children)

The Tank Museum Archive & Reference Library holds the original enlistment and transfers-in ledgers (Army Book 358)”

Royal Tank Corps - FIBIwiki

You may be lucky and find that Tiny’s enlistment details are recorded there.

Good Luck

Steve

 

Thank you Steve, I'll give that a try too.

 

Hi,

Further googling turns up this link to WW2 War Diaries

War Diaries of the 6th Royal Tank Regiment

This entry made me chuckle....

28/3/41 Two bombs fell in C Sqn area but caused no damage.
29/3/41 C Sqn camouflage tanks.

Steve

 

Hi,

You’ll likely get your grandfathers full name from your mother’s marriage certificate.

Steve

 

That, unfortunately, is another tale.

 

Sorry don't want to cause any distress/embarrassment but likewise his full name will/should be on her birth certificate.

As you say she was born 1941 that suggests Tiny Williams was back in UK 1940/41. If he was still a serving soldier you may find his service details on the birth certificate.

Steve

 

That is assuming that Mr Williams is Mandi's grandfather, if I am reading post 3 correctly, Mr Williams was a very good friend to your grandmother before he left for service and that he and she eventually ended up marrying other partners, hence the 'another tale'??
Maybe I have that completely wrong

TD

 

Correct TD she was married to someone else and he shows on the birth cert.

He was not allowed to see my mother either when he came back from service.

 

By 'he' I assume you mean Ian Williams. Is there any details about his wife that may have got through the screen??, a name etc, and added to that maybe sitting down and working out when your grandparents married and when Ian and his wife married. Assuming Ian married in the UK then there may only have been a few months when that could have happened which would narrow a search - just trying to think around the problem and look at it from another angle

TD

edited for relationship errors - must be tired making mistakes

 

Neither of the ‘fathers’ were allowed to see her, makes my great grandmother sound brutal but she probably had my mother’s best interests at heart.

Williams was not married at the time my grandmother knew him but my grandmother was, looking at her marriage notice. I know Williams was still in touch with my grandmother before she passed away but no idea if he was married then.

It does still narrow it down somewhat so thank you for the tip, much appreciated.

On the plus side my old school project ‘family tree’ was a doddle, as my father’s side was just as brief.

 

Hi,

Just another thought - you could contact RTR Archives and let them have sight of the photo and see what they can glean from it....they may have the named original?

Steve

http://www.tankmuseum.org/schools-and-research/archives

 

Excellent, thank you both. Will let you know if I ever get any further than a photo.

 

I've just searched Royal Tank Corps Enlistment Records, 1919-1934. Lots of Williams but nothing obvious. Just out of interest - what is the Welsh version of Ian?

 

Hi,

No expert but perhaps Ieuan or Ioan (record may even have a English speakers misspelled attempt at writing it down phonetically) ?

Steve

 

I thought that - but apparently those names are the equivalent of 'John'. I can't find a Welsh 'Ian'.

 

Not sure to be honest, the only variations I can think of that look at all like Ian are Ieuan, Eaun, Eoin or the Scottish Iian. I’m going to have a hunt through my mother’s old photo draw this evening, incase the picture with his full name was seperated from the other old photos.

Thank you for looking Harkness, in 1934 I am guessing he would have been only around 17, not sure how young people signed up back then.

 

Sorry I meant Iain