Help with a medal listing / Merchant Navy record

Hi All,

I have been researching a relative called Herbert Gordon Beavers but am a bit confused by what I have found.

I know he was a war reserve special constable, I have numerous newspaper reports naming him in full at court and it is also written on the 1939 register.

I have now found the attached medal index / record on the National Archives website but I don't know exactly what it means (if this screen shot is not allowed please delete it but as it was the free preview andyone can get I'm hoping it's OK).

I'm assuming he has left the police at some point and the link I followed from Ancestry is for medals issued to merchant seamen so he must have gone to sea. I know the date under his name is his date of birth and I think the R number under his surname is a discharge number. The two entries circled is 1939 and (from looking at other lists on the page) IT.

Can anyone tell me if there is a way to find out more?

What are the two medals he got? Is there a way to find out more about his service without getting his record?

Thanks for the help,

Michael

 

Medal listing of Beavers, Herbert Gordon Discharge number: R33064 Date of... | The National Archives
Reference: BT 395/1/5862
Description:
Medal listing of Beavers, Herbert Gordon
Discharge number: R33064
Date of Birth: 16 December 1908
Date: [1946-2002]
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Legal status: Public Record(s)
Closure status: Open Document, Open Description
Access conditions: Open on Transfer

Herbert Gordon Beavers
1908–1991
BIRTH 16 DEC 1908 • Tynemouth
DEATH DEC 1991 • Kings Lynn, Norfolk, England


One factor that might help is - was your man born on 16 Dec 1908??

TD

 

Hi TD,

Yes he was. I have his Dad's WW1 record and his date of birth is on that.

Michael

 

Can you upload the link to the 39 Register -using his name and DoB results in zero for me - dont know why - it also seems odd that a policeman would be 'allowed' to leave his job especially with his age and experience of policing to go and join the Merchant Navy - be intertesting to find out the reasons behind all that but of course with time ........................................

TD

 

Tricky
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interact...MI8PXX8KWE5wIVFODtCh1Mgw70EAAYASAAEgJNJfD_BwE

 

Thanks Tony56 - I guess with Ancestry like my father (who was transcribed as Lillian instead of William and born in 1878 instead of 1918) they enjoy making problems for us, I assume FMP have better transcribers than Ancestry

So can now see he was a 'Furniture mail order representative' and a 'Special Constable' - assumed he was a full member of the Police Force, so that answers one part in the he was probably not in a reserved occupation, so when the time came for him to 'do his duty' he upped and joined the Merchant Navy

Shiny - best way to go is contact member Hugh McLean he is an MN specialist, and will be able to walk you through what you need to do

TD

Re medals - if he never left UK waters I guess the 2 medals would be
War Medal
Defence Medal

 

You beat me to it Tony, thanks.

I have kept digging and have found a merchant navy record card for him now on FMP showing him being signed up as a mess room boy in the late 1920's, it has the same discharge number and DOB on the card so it's definitely him.

I have also found a newspaper story from 1938 describing him being a stowaway.It says he became an errand boy on leaving school but at 15 he went to sea on the trawlers, then joined deep sea vessels then after 7 years married and settled down to a land job. It also has a photo of him in it!

So it now looks like he was MN then became a special during the war although I'm surprised he was allowed to after being caught as a stowaway.

 

Thanks a lot TD, I presume the police would have got the same two as he seems to have been a special between 1939 and 1941 at the very least.

Michael

 

Hello Michael,
The two medals shown are the 1939-45 Star and the Italy Star but also entitled to the War Medal so that is worth an enquiry to the Registry of Shipping & Seamen at Cardiff. Merchant seamen did not qualify for the Defence Medal, I will have a look for anything else on him.
Regards
Hugh

 

Thanks very much Huge, that's a great help.

 

I have managed to find out quite a lot from the newspapers in the last few hours but it makes it look like he had left the Merchant Navy by 1939, the medal card says differently. All the dates of birth match and home location of North Shields match so I think it must be the same man but I can't work it out. This is what I have found, maybe it will help someone else make sense of things. He had quite an adventure:

Herbert Gordon Beavers was born on the 16th of December 1908 in North Shields, he was one of four children to Robert and Nora.

He went to King Edwards School in Tynemouth then got a job as an errand boy until the age of 15½ when he went to sea on a trawler (that would be around 1923).

In the late 1920’s he joined the Merchant Navy as a mess room boy and on the 6th of February 1928 arrived at New Orleans on his first vessel, a brand new steel screw steamer called the Lunula. The following year, on the 16th of March 1929, he arrived in New York. By now he was working as an assistant cook on the Persian Prince.

On the 10th of December 1938 a story was published in the Shields Daily News describing the arrival of a ship called the Berengaria in Jarrow and tells how Herbert wanted to buy a mattress from it which he hid under as a stowaway. The story tells that he had been on a ship to Brooklyn (it must have been the Persian Prince) which broke down 6 times en-route. He had become fed up and jumped ship in America and managed to get a job in a hotel, then at the biggest asylum in the world on Ward’s island. Next he had to walk around New York in pyjamas to promote a new book, then got a job in a newspaper office by day and a speak easy by night.

He decided he wanted to come home for Christmas and managed to get on board the Berengaria as a visitor but hid behind a chain locker when visitors were told to leave. He stayed hidden there for 3½ days with only 3 bottles of water and 70 cigarettes to survive on, he says he was there on his 21st birthday which would make this December 1929.

He was starving so had a wash, turned his shirt inside out and went to get some food. He managed to get a meal but was caught when he tried to get his bags. He was locked in the isolation hospital and the next morning taken to see the captain. He was told if he paid the fair nothing more would be said but he didn’t have the £20 to do so (according to google that’s about £888 in 2019). He paid £10 as a deposit and was given a month to pay the rest, which he did on his return to England.

On the 27th of August 1933 he married Annie Harrison in North Shields and got a job on shore as an insurance agent.

By 1939 he had changed jobs again and was now working as a mail order furniture representative. There is also a note saying he is a war reserve special constable with Tynemouth Police Force.

On the 10th of November 1939 there is a story in the Shields Daily News saying he was assaulted on duty by a drunk who was supposed to be on ARP duty. On the 29th of September the following year he is in the newspaper again describing an arrest he has made on a butcher who was drunk in the street.

A newspaper report from Saturday the 22nd of June 1957 describes an explosion at Beavers Bakery on Church Street in North Shields at 1230 am. Herbert is described as the owner who was there at the time working on a large order for Percy Main Social Club's outing the next day. Despite the explosion destroying the only oven everyone was OK and they managed to carry on and fill the order.​

 

This is what I have for now taken from the Fourth Register of Seamen - not 100% sure of the first two years due to poor print. Bear in mind those records often have mistakes and omissions and he may have done more voyages in those and other ships. As you can see he is in the MN in 1946 and to qualify for the medals he must have seen service during the war so my advice would be to obtain his CRS 10 from TNA Kew and hopefully that may help. The file should show service from January 1941 until leaving the service - details of where to look later.

149640 – LUNULA – 12/1/1926?

99437 – LUCERNA – 3/6/1927

140716 - PERSIAN PRINCE – 26/2/1929

146597 - SCOTTISH MUSICIAN – 19/10/1930

164860 - ADELLEN – 26/4/1946

Regards
Hugh

 

Thanks very much for the help Hugh, I'm wondering if he left and the joined up again towards the end of the war.

Can you tell me what a CRS 10 is and where is the register you found the details above on. I've never really researched Merchant Seamen before and I'm keen to learn as we seem to have quite a few in the family tree.

Thanks again,

Michael

 

Michael,
A CRS 10 is a merchant seaman's service record held in the Fifth Register of Seamen albeit only beginning from Jan, 1941 - service prior to that is held in the Fourth Register of Seamen.
The original records for the Fourth Register are held in Southampton City Archives with micofiche copies at TNA Kew and also copies on FMP - you have found one card on FMP but there are 3 more for him. Let me know if you cannot find them and I will send them on to you.
To obtain his CRS 10 you will need to go to Kew or employ a researcher as they are not available online. His file, assuming it has survived, will be held in a block of up to 60 other names that is why you will need to visit or get someone to visit for you. The file is BT 382/102

It is very possible that he re-joined the service later in the war. To earn the Italy Star the criteria was as follows: This medal was awarded for operational service in Sicily or Italy during the period 11th June 1943 to 8th May 1945.

Any questions please feel free to ask.

Regards
Hugh

 

Thanks again for the help Hugh, I have found the other 3 cards now on FMP. By happy coincidence I have to go to London in a few weeks time so I'll see if I can get to Kew for an hour before I head for the train home.

I think going off the cards and the medal criteria you have listed he must have joined up again.

Michael

 

Hi All,

I've now managed to get the CRS 10, thanks very much Hugh MacLean, I didn't know these cards existed until you mentioned them.

I'm hoping now for a bit of help with the card itself.

I'm guessing the first column is name and official number of ship but what does "F or H" mean?

What does the first entry mean? I think it says MARP and has a date of 29.7.44. Could that be the date he has rejoined?

Now I have a list of ships he was on is there a website or any other way to find out out what these ships were doing or where they were?

There is a note on the bottom of the card saying CRS 8 issued 24.1.47, which I can see is him being discharged again.

Thanks very much

 

Hi Michael,
Glad that worked out for you.
F = Foreign [going] and H = Home Trade. Basically if the ship was sailing on foreign voyages or operating in the home waters area of the UK and northern European ports.
The first entry is MNRP = Merchant Navy Reserve Pool. That would be the date he rejoins service in the MN.
The CRS 8 is his discharge from the MN in 1947.
You can check the ConvoyWeb site and see where those vessels served - ConvoyWeb then click the Arnold Hague Ports Database. Alternately there are movement cards available for download from TNA Kew for £3.50 each if you need a more formal account. The movement cards would be good if you were needing to check with the RSS in Cardiff about the lack of a War Medal on his medal card.
Any questions - feel free to ask.
Regards
Hugh

 

Hi Hugh,

That is brilliant I'll start digging.

I have about 10 relatives who served with the Merchant Navy so you have given me some great tips for all of them.

I'm sure I will have more questions so thanks a lot for the offer, I'm sure I'll be in touch.

Thanks again,

Michael

 

Shiny

Is this your man Herbert Beavers?
UK, WWII Medals Issued to Merchant Seamen, 1939-1945
Name: Herbert Gordon Beavers
Birth Date: 16 Dec 1908
Service: 1939-1945
Medal Issued/Claimed: 1946-2002
Discharge Number: R33064

Medal listing of Beavers, Herbert Gordon Discharge number: R33064 Date of... | The National Archives
Reference: BT 395/1/5862
Description:
Medal listing of Beavers, Herbert Gordon
Discharge number: R33064
Date of Birth: 16 December 1908
Date: [1946-2002]
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Legal status: Public Record(s)

£3.50 to download

TD

 

Hi TD,

Yes that's him, thanks a lot for the link.

Michael