Help wanted with identifications

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by Kieron Hill, Jul 24, 2004.

  1. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    What unit's badge is this on here? D 12427 Version of 55 Div sign maybe?

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    On this photo of a Bren Carrier pretending to be German is a good example of 47th Div sign.
    >>>H 10646
     
  2. PeterG

    PeterG Senior Member

    What unit's badge is this on here? D 12427 Version of 55 Div sign maybe?
    Yes, it's the Red Rose of Lancashire, the vehicle version of 55th (East Lancashire) Infantry Division. This unleaved version appears in George Forty's British Army Handbook 1939-1945
     
  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Yes, it's the Red Rose of Lancashire, the vehicle version of 55th (East Lancashire) Infantry Division. This unleaved version appears in George Forty's British Army Handbook 1939-1945
    Which is sat upstairs on my bookshelf, "Oops" he says somewhat red-faced. :p
     
  4. PeterG

    PeterG Senior Member

  5. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Peter, Maybe you should have your website, which is excellent as your signature.
     
  6. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Going back to the original post, this is the 2nd Army Thanksgiving Service booklet. It also includes a colour version of 5 Div's patch.

    I picked this up on eBay and when I showed it proudly to my dad, he said "I've got one of those upstairs, we all got one in Germany at the end of the war !" (He was 11 Air Formation Signals).

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Attached Files:

  8. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Owen, are the museum specific on dates other than that vague "second world war period "? Cole states that the background changed to black in 1946.

    I think that the battledress is 1940 pattern and that the next change was for 1949 so it could well be a wartime dated BD but with later badges.
     
  9. PeterG

    PeterG Senior Member

    I think that the battledress is 1940 pattern and that the next change was for 1949 so it could well be a wartime dated BD but with later badges.
    Rich

    Although we have only a side view, this looks like a tailored battledress blouse of c.1944/1945. It looks to me that it has an open collar as worn with a collared shirt and tie. By 1945 battledress blouses were sometimes tailored permanently opened. These were 'walking-out', best blouses, sometimes known as 'tiddly' dress.

    The 1940 blouse was hooked at the collar and worn without a tie. But what clinches it here is the breast pocket. The 1940 pattern BD blouse had the breast pocket buttons concealed by over-lapping cloth so as not to catch the buttons on ammunition pouch webbing. The later 'best dress' blouses had the breast pocket buttons visible, again as in this case. Exposed button blouses were first issued in Italy in 1944, these were made in the USA where production began in January 1943, and shipped over.

    Peter
     
  10. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Looking at the medal ribbons must be post-War.
    Other images of battledress >>>here.<<<

    EDIT, guess who didn't look at the date on the label?
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    loking at this photo they did use the Y on a black circle on their Sign-boards.

    From The Wardrobe again.
    2nd Bn, Wiltshire Regiment - A black and white photo of two of the Battalion Officers in a rest area behind the front line in Italy in 1944

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    But a Y on a square on the uniforms.


    2nd Bn, Wiltshire Rgeiment - A sepia photo of Lieutenant Colonel Heffer, with his Brigadier, prior to the first Sergeant Rogers parade at Goslar in Germany in May 1945


    [​IMG]




    2nd Bn, Wiltshire Regiment - A sepia photo of four officers, including Major G F Woolnough, who went on to become the last Commanding Officer of the 1st Bn, Wiltshire Regiment and the first Commanding Officer of 1st Bn, Duke of Edinburgh's Regiment, standing second from the left, somewhere in Italy in 1944
    [​IMG]

    5th Div vehicles also have black circle with Y.

    [​IMG]
    2nd Bn, Wiltshire Regiment - One of a series of black and white photographs relating to the advance to Lubeck by the 2nd Battalion in the Spring of 1945. This image shows the Commanding Officer consulting his maps on the bonnet of a jeep.


    and another but soldiers in another 1945 photo still have Y on a square

    2nd Bn, Wiltshire Regiment - One of a series of black and white photographs relating to the advance to Lubeck by the 2nd Battalion in the Spring of 1945. This image shows vehicles of the Battalion crossing the Tally- Ho Bridge across the river Elbe.
    [​IMG]

    Dunno what shape backing this Y has, seems to be painted straight onto the camo or is there a faint circle?[​IMG]

    2nd Bn, Wiltshire Regiment - One of a series of black and white photographs relating to the advance to Lubeck by the 2nd Battalion in the Spring of 1945. This image shows a group from the Battalion in the Spring of 1945 halting outside the village of Maln. The vehicle clearly shows the Divisional signs.


    Rich, you were correct in saying the Div sign worn on the uniform dates from 1946.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    2nd Bn, Wiltshire Regiment - One of a collection of 68 black and white photos of a Sergeant's Mess party on Boxing Day (December 26th) 1946, when the Battalion was based outside Hannover, to which the officers and their ladies were invited; the photos were taken by a local German photographer and this collection was acquired by Lieutenant F K Wheeler, MM, who had recently transferred from the 7th Battalion, Somerset Light Infantry to the 2nd Wiltshires. This particular photo shows an unidentified Sergeant and, presumably, his wife - wives had recently been permitted to join their husbands in Germany
     
  12. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    What does the (C) mean?:)
     
  13. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  14. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

  15. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Thanks for posting those Owen. Fascinating to see the "Y" so widely displayed. The mudguard was not really the official place for the Divisional Insignia on a motorcycle (BSA M20s by the way) Did the Battalion re-equip for NW Europe ?

    Rich.
     
  16. PeterG

    PeterG Senior Member

    Yes C is for Copyright and to stop hotlinking.
     
  17. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Did the Battalion re-equip for NW Europe ?
    I'll check the War diary and get back to you.EDIT, can't find any reference to requiping for Europe.
     

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