Help wanted with identifications

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by Kieron Hill, Jul 24, 2004.

  1. Kieron Hill

    Kieron Hill Senior Member

    I need help identifying some regimental badges. I picked this
    8th Army Service of Thanks Giving and Service
    of Thanks Giving for Victory service sheets on ebay.

    They're very interesting and one of them has a hand written
    note on the reverse:-

    "Held at Rivalto near Udine Italy at 9.00am May 1945 in our
    camping field with the Alps in the background".

    Any ideas what regiments where in/around that area at the
    this time?

    They both have regimental badges on the covers, some I know
    others I do not...any ideas?

    I've attached scanned copies of these via file attachments, I
    hope they come out.
     
  2. Gerry Chester

    Gerry Chester WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Originally posted by kieron hill@Jul 24 2004, 02:34 PM
    I need help identifying some regimental badges. I picked this
    8th Army Service of Thanks Giving and Service
    of Thanks Giving for Victory service sheets on ebay.

    They're very interesting and one of them has a hand written
    note on the reverse:-

    "Held at Rivalto near Udine Italy at 9.00am May 1945 in our
    camping field with the Alps in the background".

    Any ideas what regiments where in/around that area at the
    this time?

    They both have regimental badges on the covers, some I know
    others I do not...any ideas?

    I've attached scanned copies of these via file attachments, I
    hope they come out.
    Hello Kieron,

    Some of the badges, of units with which my Regiment was associated, are in the Gallery.

    As the attachment is truncated, please e-mail the two of them to me in order that I may help you further. Made smaller is possible, to vqpnih@msn.com.

    The North Irish Horse was located near Udine in May - although I was home in England on LIAP at the time, possibly I may find something in the records about other units in the vicinity for you. Perchance is there name on either piece?

    Gerry
     
  3. Yellow Axe on Black Background ~78th Infantry Dvn.UK
    HD in Red on Blue/Purple Ground~51st Highland Dvn.UK
    Red Quartered Circle on White Ground~4th Infy Dvn.UK
    Yellow Trefoil on Red Ground ~8th Indian Dvn.India
    Blue Pegasus on Maroon Ground~Airborne Divn.UK
    White Female with Seaxe on Red Ground~Polish Divn.
    White Shield with Yellow Cross~8th Army
    Black Boar on white Ground~30th Army Corps
    White Circle & Bar on Red Ground~10th Army Corps
    "GO" On Green Ground on Black~8th Armoured Divn
    Viking Ship with Red Cross on Black Ground~5th Army Corps
    Red Gazelle on White Ground on Red~13th Army Corps~BETFOR
    White Triangle on Red Ground~1st Divn.UK
     
  4. Gerry Chester

    Gerry Chester WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Following up on Bernard's list:
    To the immediate right of 8th Army shield: Royal Canadian 1st Infantry Corps.

    Syrena, the Maid of Warsaw, is the insignia of Ander's 2nd Polish Corps. Division signs carried a green fir tree and a red eagle.

    Gerry
     
  5. Gerry Chester

    Gerry Chester WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

  6. BeppoSapone

    BeppoSapone Senior Member

    Originally posted by Gerry Chester@Jul 26 2004, 03:42 PM
    With Kieron's permission the cover of 8th Army Service has been reprudced
    http://www.geocities.com/vqpvqp/nih/Insign...my-Service.html

    If known, please identify any of the nine badges not named. Thank you.

    Gerry
    These Formation Signs are those of units that fought as part of 8th Army at any time, rather than just in Italy.

    For example, 44th (Home Counties) Division was disbanded after El Alamein and the 9th Australian Division were back in Australia long before the Allied landings in Italy.

    Here are the 'unknown' flashes identified.

    LEFT

    8) 9th Australian Division - vehicle marking etc, not on uniform. A system of geometrical "colour patches" were what was worn on the actual uniforms. Some of the other signs shown were also vehicle markings eg the Canadians wore plain rectangular "battle patches" - no maple leaf.

    13) British - 44th (Home Counties) Division - Oval design represents Kennington Oval.

    16) 5th Kresowa Infantry Division, Free Polish Army.

    18) Free French Forces

    RIGHT

    9) 10th Indian Division

    10) 1st South African Division

    15) 5th Indian Division

    16) 2nd South African Division

    18) British - 6th Division

    Also,

    12) is actually the sign of 4th Indian Division rather than the Polish Kresowa Division. Their badge was the Polish Bison identified above.
     
  7. Gerry Chester

    Gerry Chester WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Thank you Beppo for filling in the blanks and for the correction. Your comment about Kennington Oval brings back many happy memories of watching my Uncle Frank umpiring test matches - a long time ago!

    For the benefit for members who may be interested, here is the updated page:
    http://www.geocities.com/vqpvqp/nih/Insign...my-Service.html

    Gerry

    PS Somewhere I have 1st Army's Service held after the end of hostilities in Tunisia.
     
  8. Kieron Hill

    Kieron Hill Senior Member

    I would just like to say a very big thank you
    to everyone that has helped identify the
    regimental signs on the service sheets.
    Its been very interesting.

    Once again thankyou!!!!

    Regards

    Kieron
     
  9. Gerry Chester

    Gerry Chester WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Can anyone help Kieron out with this one?
    [​IMG]
     
  10. BeppoSapone

    BeppoSapone Senior Member

    Originally posted by Gerry Chester@Jul 27 2004, 12:15 PM
    Can anyone help Kieron out with this one?
    [​IMG]
    A bit of "artistic license" has been taken with the two signs, that are not quite "right".

    However, the "wavy lines" on a shield was the sign of a Higher Formation -"Headquarters 15th Army Group".

    The "Torch of Freedom", is probably supposed to be "HQ Central Meditterranean Force".
     
  11. Kieron Hill

    Kieron Hill Senior Member

    Cheers Beppo,

    After seeing your post I did a little bit of research myself
    and everything fell together with the service sheets.

    15th ARMY GROUP HISTORY (U.S. Fifth Army + 8th British Army) in Italy December 1944 - May 1945. Summary: This is a reprint of the Group's operational and combat history originally printed in Austria in 1945 immediately after Germany surrendered. The 15th Army Group was the senior command for forces in Italy at the end of World War II. December 1944-May 1945: The 15th Army Group under General Clark (the Fifth U.S. Army + the 8th British Army) was deployed with Armies abreast across Italy against fortified German Armies. Unique to the 15th Army Group was the divergent national elements: Americans (white, “colored”, Japanese Nisei)+brigades from India, Canada, New Zealand, Poland, South Africans, Brazilians+Jews and Italians.

    ATTACHED U.S. Army Units: 34th Infantry Division, 85th Infantry Division, 88th Infantry Division, 91st Infantry Division, 92nd Infantry Division, 1st Armored Division, 10th Mountain Infantry Division, 442nd Infantry Brigade, 8th and 66th Anti-Aircraft Brigades, Fifth Army Artillery, Fifth Army Engineers.

    ATTACHED ALLIED UNITS: 6th South African Armored Division, Italian Legnano Combat Group, Brazilian Expeditionary Force 1st Infantry Division, British Eight Army, 1st Canadian Armored Brigade, Jewish Infantry Brigade Group, Italian Cremona Combat Group, Italian Friuli Combat Group, 10th Indian Infantry Division, 2 Polish Corps Artillery and 5th Kresowa Infantry Division

    You see this all fell together with regimental badges and the sheets.

    Thanks for all your help

    cheers

    Kieron
     
  12. angie999

    angie999 Very Senior Member

    Some of the formations with badges on display, such as 51st (Highland) Division and XXX Corps, were not part of 8th Army in 1945, but had been in the past, for instance when 8th Army was in the Western Desert.
     
  13. Bill Alexander

    Bill Alexander Junior Member

    Hello. A comment regarding the Canadian formation sign in this string. The sign pictured appears to be be the vehicle sign and not the patch worn on the uniform. The formation was 1 Canadian Corps which was composed of 1 Canadian Infantry Division, 5th Canadian Armoured Division. In addition, 1 Canadian Armoured Brigade served in Sicily and Italy.
    The proper uniform patch for 1 Cdn Corps was a red diamond. Some corps had the corps abbreviation or a device embroidered on the diamond. (Eg the blue zig zag for Royal Canadian Artillery.) The patch for 1 Cdn Inf Div was a red rectangle, and a maroon patch for the 5th Canadian Armoured Division. The 1st Canadian Armoured Bde wore a red diamond with a black horizontal bar. Early in the campaign the regimental designation was over-embroidered on the black bar.
    Those interested in the insignia of the Canadian army can go to theCanuck website. Lots of good information on Canadian insignia on the sidebar scrolls.
     
  14. tia28uk

    tia28uk Junior Member

  15. EddieSlovik

    EddieSlovik Member

    I picked up one of these 8th Army Thanksgiving Service items at a boot sale today.

    Inside was a smaller item of ephemera - from 13th Corp's Thanksgiving Service.

    Front and back cover:
     
  16. EddieSlovik

    EddieSlovik Member

    This item was printed at Trieste.

    Inside:
     
  17. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron

    My good friend Peter Ghiringhelli has just finished a masterly simple identification aid, aptly entitled "British Army Formation Signs of World War 2".
    It can be seen at :
    http://www.petergh.f2s.com/flashes.html
     
  18. PeterG

    PeterG Senior Member

    13) British - 44th (Home Counties) Division - Oval design represents Kennington Oval.
    Beppo
    I was very interested in what you said here about the Oval.

    There is very little information about flashes on the Internet, other than scattered bits mainly in Militaria dealers lists. Because of this I decided to compile a webpage of flashes (completed today) http://www.petergh.f2s.com/flashes.html

    Much is still unexplained, for example, the reason for:

    1. The drum of 45th Infantry Div.
    2. The yellow seahorse of 27th Armoured Brigade
    3. The clock of 37th Ind. Inf. Brigade, is it perhaps 7 mins past 3, i.e., 37?
    4. The initials NM of 148th Inf. Brigade.
    5. The tulip of 212th Ind. Inf. Brigade.

    Any explanation for the flashes of 219th, 223rd, 227th. and 303rd Ind. Inf. Brigades?

    Peter
     
  19. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I have a copy of Howard Cole's "Formation Badges of WW2". Lt.Col Cole was a G.S.O.2 in a staff Duties branch of the War Office and the book was first published in 1946 so his memory should have been fresh !

    He gives the following info:-

    45th (West Country Div) "Drake's drum was appropriately chosen" as 45th was a duplicate of 43rd (Wessex) composed of SW Territorial units.

    27 Armoured Bde - No information.

    37 Ind. Inf Bde - Good guess Peter - 0307 hours ! The diamond background referred to service with 12th Div as part of BEF

    148 Ind Inf Bde. - No information.

    212 Ind Inf Bde - The tulip was originally the badge of the Lincolnshire County Division. It reflects the bulb growing in Lincolnshire.

    219 Ind Inf Bde - No information (but it is a phoenix)

    223 Ind Inf Bde - The three saxes of the Essex county arms as worn by Essex County Division.

    227 Ind Inf Bde - No mention of this unit found.

    303 Ind Inf Bde - White Hart's head taken from the Arms of the Borough of Eastbourne. The Bde had connections with the town.

    Well, it's a start but the last few are always the hardest ! Well Done, by the way with your substantial piece of research !

    Rich
     
  20. PeterG

    PeterG Senior Member

    Many thanks, Rich. I've incorporated that interesting information and attributed your input (scroll to the bottom)

    Peter
     

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