Help understanding my great uncle's RAF service

Discussion in 'General' started by Graham Topham, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. Graham Topham

    Graham Topham New Member

    My great uncle was a pilot in the RAFVR. Attached is a summary of his service/training record. He went missing on a training flight AW275 on 11/03/1943. A lot of his service record is to do with training in Canada. Does it look like he had passed his training before he went missing? From what I gather it looks like he never went on any bombing runs or anything - however surely he cannot have been training for two years? Would the fact he was only a sergeant (rather than an officer) show that he was still training? My nan never thought he saw active service, however another family member thinks he may have been present on a few active bombing runs. Any insights or assistance would be useful.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    I’m sure an RAF expert will be along shortly but I’d hazard a guess that he died whilst on the strength of an Operational Training Unit as neither his MOD record or CWGC record show a Squadron number.

    A member will likely turn up a reference to the incident and if he was in a bomber you may be lucky to find fuller details in the Canadian or Australian National Archives If any crew members were from Canada or Australia - not likely - see below link to Runnymede Memorial that appears to show that all personnel were RAFVR.

    Good Luck.

    Steve

    EDIT TO ADD

    No. 5 Operational Training Unit RAF (5 OTU)
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  3. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Runnymede panel from my collection.
    upload_2019-3-22_14-48-11.png
    Sergeant WARE, JOHN ALFRED RONALD
    Service Number 1315385

    Died 11/03/1943

    Aged 31

    Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve

    Son of John James Ware and Esther Ware, of Oxford.
    Casualty
    Commemorated at RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL

    Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
    Number of casualties: 20278

    Cemetery/memorial reference: Panel 168.
     
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  4. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    From RAFCommands site

    RAFCommands Forums

    The four missing personnel were with No.5 (C)OTU.

    March 11th 1943, “At 08.05 Beaufort AW275 with Sgt Ware, pilot, Sgt Clark, Nav.B, Sgt Kemp, Sgt Fitzmaurice WOP/Ags took off on navigation exercise and were at approx 11.20 estimated to be near Stornoway. A signal was received at 13.38 that being the last heard of them. Presumed missing in sea.”

    Here is link to all men who died 11th March 1943 who are listed on Runnymede Memorial.

    Results

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
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  5. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    The four missing personnel were with No.5 (C)OTU.

    March 11th 1943, “At 08.05 Beaufort AW275 with Sgt Ware, pilot, Sgt Clark, Nav.B, Sgt Kemp, Sgt Fitzmaurice WOP/Ags took off on navigation exercise and were at approx 11.20 estimated to be near Stornoway. A signal was received at 13.38 that being the last heard of them. Presumed missing in sea.”
    430311 - Unaccounted airmen - 11-3-1943
     
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  6. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    I may as well have a stab at answering your queries within the quoted text below - queries numbered for my ease of reference -

    Steve
     
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  7. Graham Topham

    Graham Topham New Member

    Thanks so much for your in depth reply! His loss was so sudden and heartbreaking for his family they never really spoke of him again, so I’m trying to piece it all together. Would his pilots log book be available anywhere, or likely lost?

    Ps his age at death was actually 22 (born 1921 not 1913) and it’s on my to do list to get this changed. Any experience as to how easy this is?
     
  8. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Just follow the advice from CWGC site via below link -

    Amending Records

    Steve

    PS

    Air Ministry usually let NOK of deceased Pilot’s have the log book post war.

    RAF expert may be able to confirm if Number 5 OTU Operational Record Book is available via U.K. National Archives.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
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  9. RAFCommands

    RAFCommands Senior Member

    The text posted on RAF Commands is a transcript of the entry in the ORB.

    Log books were advertised in the national press as available to be claimed until a certain date post war - then apart from a few typical and notable examples held in archive were destroyed.

    Ross
     
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