Help required for a German friend regarding the shooting down of a Fairey Battle in Northern France

One thing about Perry that I need to understand and hopefully will with our experts help.

Perry was shot down on 14th May 1940 in France and died in an English hospital on 14th June 1940. Was he picked up wounded by British soldiers and shipped back to the UK, or is it known how he was moved from the scene of the crash landing to the hospital in England??

Its something sitting in the back of my mind that I need some conclusion to - thanks guys

TD

 

from my photos

 

Here you go, lots of info on here:

The France and Flanders Campaign 1940

 

TD set a task on your favorite National Archive Ferret to copy the followinf AIR 81 file for you. It will give all you need.

Leading Aircraftman E R Layfield: uninjured. Sergeant C D Perry: injured, later died;... | The National Archives

Ross

 

Well I hope that next time Drew is at TNA he picks up a copy of the file - can't be more than 2 or 3 pages I would guess.

Thanks Ross

Are you there Drew???

TD

 

No, I'm here

 

Yes - glad you are there and not here (mainly as its wet and grey)

TD

 

I don't think that it can be Perry's aeroplane as Alieneyes post refers to him having flown back to the vicinity of his base and the British had none close to Sedan. If the Battle in the photo is indeed the one in the photo then it must have been close to the German unit who claim to have shot it down, otherwise it would simply be just another crash-landed enemy aircraft.

However, Fitzgerald crashed behind allied lines too...and is noted as having been shot down by aircraft and it does seem that he was in PM-K

Could we work back from the date of the 28 fatalities with the German unit (they ought to be noted somewhere). Incidentally, this is quite a substantial toll considering that the RAF bombers are generally recorded as ineffectual and the German Flak so effective.

 

The French website states that the severely wounded pilot was repatriated back to the UK and died later.
This begs the question as to Repatriation by the Germans or is something lost in translation.
Regards
Tom

 

Rich

That could be his base in France - and with the speed the Germans moved perhaps they came across their base a few days after the crews had departed

as opposed to the possiblity that he managed to return close to his base in England

TD
edited to add:
Tom - thats why I have things nagging in the back of my mind and hopefully the file that Drew will copy from TNA will answer some of our questions

 

TD - I'm sure that it was France, but if the German unit had not actually seen it crash, surely they wouldn't have claimed that this was the one ? There were no RAF airfields within sight of the Meuse.

The internet is full of images of crashed Battles but not with this tail-high attitude. It's a shame that we can't see a serial number. They were usually quoted in logs but the Squadron codes not.

 

Andrew,
Thanks for the link which explains why only two crew members used on these missions.
Still cannot get my head around if the Pilot was captured and due to his serious wounds was immediately repatriated.
The photo is genuine showing the plane squadron and letter and just a pity that no serial number is visible.
Regards
Tom

 

14/05/1940: bridges, B

Eight Battles, led by Flying Officer J R Havers, took off shortly after 05:00 to attack three pontoon bridges over the Meuse between Neuvion and Douzy. The aircraft were subjected to heavy flak over the target but 1 bridge was claimed as hit. The Battle of Sergeant Charles D. Perry was hit by flak and badly damaged. The pilot was severely wounded in the thigh and stomach but he was able to fly the aircraft back to the vicinity of the airfield and crash land when he felt he was about to pass out. Sergeant Perry immediately evacuated to England but sadly died hospital in June 1940. He was awarded a DFM for his bravery.
World War 2 - RAF 103 Squadron, May/June 1940



The Battle of Charles Perry which force landed a few miles from Betheniville. Perry was wounded and died a month later.

103 Sqn 1937 to 1940

All 8 Battles returned although Sgt C D Parry (typo) was badly wounded by ground fire. He managed, with great difficulty, to fly back to the vicinity of the airfield at Betheniville and crash-landed. He was later awarded DFM but sadly died of his wounds in the UK.
As the position rapidly worsened Betheniville and the nearby village and road were subjected to a series of air raids
Sedan 14 May 40

 

What an interesting thread....been collecting my thoughts on and off during the day.

Visited RAF Benson and St Helens cemetery in early December last year and took a number of photographs which might include Sgt Perry's grave.

[Incidentally the conifer hedge in the CWGC photoshot of the far right of the cemetery (immediate left from the church porch entrance gate) which would be near row F graves is in need of trimming back as it's impossible to gain access to photograph a grave tombstone....must be an old CWGC photograph]

As regards Horst Frohlich,I see his military career commenced with the RAD which was normal before Hitler Young military service or the Wehrmacht. Interesting to fathom his service history

I wonder where the 28 Wehrmacht casualties were eventually buried which are referred to by Horst Frohlich,I say this from a visit to Cologne South Military Cemetery.In the German section there are quite a number of casualties buried with dates associated with those of the Blitzkrieg period which suggests that German dead from this period were repatriated back to Germany.

Tom mentions a report that the Germans mistook the Battle for the Hurricane.I would think any RAF aircraft having the silhouette of British monoplane fighter might have been incorrectly identified as the Hurricane,an aircraft which the Germans had seen the the battle for France...the Spitfire was not seen in battle by the Luftwaffe until the Dunkirk evacuation and even the Defiant was mistook for the Hurricane over Dunkirk.The Spitfire performance then became acknowledged as the leading British fighter with Luftwaffe pilots often exaggerating claims that they were shotdown by the Spitfire.

Looking at operations on the 16 May 1940 many Battles are indicated as taking to the air with two crew rather than the norm of three or the record missing as the case of Sgt Perry (Bill Chorley).I would put this down to administrative shortcomings during what was an intense dynamic situation.Normally the completion of the squadron ORB would be undertaken by the Adjutant and he as others would have been under a tremendous workload as well as possibly,the base airfield being under enemy fire from enemy intruders and a potential rapid German advance.

Overall on 14 May 1940,in an effort to prevent the Germans from crossing the Meuse at Sedan using pontoon bridges and other crossings over the Meuse (Mouzon is about 10kms south east of Sedan),the AASF put up 71 aircraft,35 of which, were lost,a loss rate from daylight operations which could not be sustained.Later in the day No 2 Group Bomber Command put up Nos 21,107 and 110 Blenheim squadrons from their East Anglia airfields, with a 28 fighter escort against overwhelming enemy fighters and ack ack and were lucky not to lose more than 8 Blenheims.

On the same day Rotterdam was bombed before an agreed surrender deadline. WSC's reaction was instruct Bomber Command to raid German Ruhr industry with the first raid on the German mainland mounted on the following night of 15/16 May using 99 Hampdens Wellingtons and Whitleys...the start on the night bombing offensive against Germany.

Sgt C D Perry crashed at Machault which was within 10 kms to the north east of his home airfield at Betheniville. The area although threatened by the rapid German advance afforded the time to recover the aircrew. As a wounded person, his stomach wound must have been thought out to be serious to warrant an evacuation to England.As it was, the German advance was seen as critical and the squadron relocated to St Lucien Ferme (Rheges, 30 km north of Troyes) on the same day,16 May,then withdrew westwards to various airfields under the onslaught of the German advance, until 15 June,what was left of its Battles were flown out of Souge (40kms north of Tours) to Abingdon...elements of the squadron's ground crew personnel were left behind temporary to destroy stores and equipment.

Sgt Perry's NOK must have chose Benson as the place of burial.The only connection as I see being that No 103 Squadron was based here at the newly opened RAF Benson from April 1939 to 2 September 1939 when it left with other elements of No 1 Group Bomber Command as the Battle equipped,10 squadron strong Advanced Striking Force France,its first base for No 103 Squadron being the airfield at Challerange,south east of Rethel.

From the Graves Registration Report Form,dated 30 April 1957, it indicates that relatives have elected to undertake grave maintenance,probably from the fact that the grave was recorded as kerbed and would be done privately......after 60 years the grave appears not be kerbed and this care by relatives is no longer valid.

Per Ardua ad Astra.

 

I can't avoid the impression that there is something wrong with these earlier photo identifications of PM J as that piloted by Perry. Douzy lies to the East of Sedan and Bétheniville is 80km by road to the south-west. I just can't see how the unit which shot it down could have positively identified and photographed it if it indeed nearly completed its flight back to base at Bétheniville. The squadron is reported as having removed equipment from the airfield as late as 17th May so it was not immediately in German hands.

PM J has to have crashed much closer to the Meuse and been seen to fall. It does look in the photo above as if a motorcycle reconnaissance unit has rushed to examine it.

The problem is that if a publication has ever made an incorrect link between serial and squadron code, the chances are that the error will be repeated until new evidence turns up (which may now be happening).

Could this one be Lowne's aircraft which crashed near Hotton on 10th May ? The other two crew members were killed. It was hit by ground fire.

 

Harry headstone already posted in the above post from my collection

 

Yes Clive I noticed it.I was trying to think if I could remember a kerbed CWGC grave at Benson but couldn't.....your photograph confirms that Sgt Perry's grave is no longer kerbed.

As I have said I have a collection of Benson photographs but they are on another laptop..will progress when I can find them.

 

Rich,
I am tending to agree with your thoughts regarding a possible error with serial number and aircraft code letter.
Turning out to be a most interesting thread.
Regards
Tom

 

Thinking about Rich's point regarding Sgt Perry's Battle photograph at Machault. Could it be that the photograph is merely a shot of British abandoned equipment when the Germans overran the crash site?

Opportunities for taking photographic evidence of the enemy and its equipment was a practice conducted by both sides in the aftermath of a successful engagement.

Unfortunately,coverage of the Battle aircraft is not available compared to Harry Moyle's work on the Hampden or the Hampden Crash Log by Nicholas Roberts.