Help required for a German friend regarding the shooting down of a Fairey Battle in Northern France

A friend of mine Dierk Fröhlich, here in Berlin has just found some photographs taken by his father in Northern France in May 1940.
He was a Lt in a Reconnaissance Regiment (Details attached of his service)
The unit was attacked by Planes and one was shot down by the company although they were not Anti Aircraft.
It was falsely described as a Hawker Hurricane and from the photos shown to me it is clearly a fairey Battle and from the reading I have looked at belonged I think to 103 Squadron.
There is only mention of one prisoner although a three man crew.
Two days later more RAF planes returned and as a result of the attack, 28 of the unit were killed (Photo of fresh graves).
Has anyone records to show who the pilot and crew were of this particular machine.
I have trawled the internet and RAF sites but could not find specific dates for losses from the Squadron.

Any help would be gratefully received.

Regards
Tom

Horst Fröhlich 23.12.1914 Berlin – 8.9.2010 Bielefeld


25. August 1934 Ausbld. Rad-Abtlg. 5/84 Meseritz/Grenzmark

Early 1935 Freiwillige Meldung bei Kraftfahr-Abt. (AA3) Wünsdorf b. Berlin

29. Oktober 1935 4. Aufklärungs-Abt. 3/ Stahnsdorf b. Berlin

1. Okt.1937 U-Offizier 4. AA9 Lüben/Schlesien

10. Nov. 1938 8. Geschwader Aufkl. Rgt. 8, Lüben, am 1.4. 1940 umbenannt in 4.PzAufkl.-Abt. 59

Mitte Mai 1940: 4.Pz Aufkl. Abt. 59 * bei der 8. Panzerdivision ( 1.Frankreichfeldzug)

1. Apr. 1943: PzAufkl. u. Ausbild.Abt. 4, Stahnsdorf b. Berlin

30. Sept. 1943 9. PanzerRegiment 36 Bamberg (Russlandfeldzug)

19. Dez. 1943 PzErs. Abt. 35 Bamberg

1. Dez. 1944 PzAusb.Abt. 500 u. Panzer Sturmmörser-Komp. 1000

16. Okt..1945 Entlassung brit. Kriegsgefangenschaft unter Cmdg. 33 Disbandment Cntrol Unit, H. Clifton Cottle, Capt. R.A. /Capt. JSP Lake, R.A.

-------------------------------------------------------------- *) Reconnaissance Sqd.

Einheiten und Einsätze:


1939 – 40: Frontdienst Polenfeldzug (Pz Ersatz- u. AusbgAbt. 500 Paderborn)


Mitte Mai 1940 : 4. Panzeraufklärungsabt. 59 ( Pz AA 59) als Vorausaktion der 8. Panzerdivision nach Nordfrankreich, kaum Kampfhandlungen zw. Maas und Oise. ( s. Fotos Bahntransport n. Nordfrankreich; Abschuss brit. Flieger; Beisetzung v. 28 Kameraden n. Rückkehr brit. Luftwaffe nach zwei Tagen)


19. Nov. 1940: 4 Wochen verwundet im Kriegslazarett 1/614 Brüssel. Später Rückzug der PzAA 59 nach Deutschland.



20. Febr. 1941 – 30. Apr. 1941: zurück bei 2.KpPz-Aufkl.Abt. 59, Oberfeldwebel


1. Mai 1941 – 1943: Heerespersonalamt 3. Abt. Pz Truppe OKH in Berlin (Reichpietschufer)


1. Okt. 1943: 9. PanzerRegiment 36 Bamberg ( Fahnenjunker, Komm. PzKomp.)



15. Okt 1943: Pz Ers.Abt. 35 Bamberg

(Winterfeldzug Russland, Okt.1943 Panzerschlacht bei Pawlowka, dann Ingulesz, Losowatka, Nowo Iwanowka und 2 x Kalinowataja am 22. Nov.1943)


28. Apr. – 30. Nov. 1944: Fahnenjunker- u. Oberfähnr.-Lehrgang PzTr. Wischau/Schlesien,

1. Sept. 1944: Leutnant, 1. Dez. 1944: Pz Ersatz- u. AusbgAbt. 500 Paderborn


9. Dez. 1944 – 23. Jan 1945: zur Panzer-Sturmmörser-Komp. 1000.

(nach Rückkehr aus Warschau und Vorbereitung der Ardennen-Offensive in der Westeifel mit neuartigen Panzern)


22. Apr. 1945: Abkommandiert zur Oberfähnrichschule 1 der Panzertruppe in Hadersleben/Dänemark)


9. Mai 1945 – 16.Okt. 1945: Brit. Kriegsgefangenschaft unter Stab II Div.General Krebs in Tönning/Eiderstädt, Schlesw.-Holstein.

_________________

 

do you have a date or location for the incident??

TD

 

Battle PM J
Recherche de France-Crashes 39-45

14th May 1940 - Ardennes area

TD

edited to add:
If this is the aircraft then
Casualty

 

561615 Sgt Charles David Perry, DFM Info on 103 Fairey Battle losses on the continent during mid-May, 1940 [Archive] - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

PERRY, Charles David (561615) Sergeant (Pilot)
D.F.M. (immediate) London Gazette 14 June 1940
Recommended 18 May 1940

This N.C.O. was seriously wounded by two bullets in the thigh and stomach during a low flying attack against the enemy on 14.5.40. Sgt Perry piloted his aircraft to the vicinity of his base until finding himself fainting he force landed.The action of this N.C.O.showed great courage and stamina.
Sadly he died in England a month later of bullet wounds to the stomach.

 

I have a couple of losses with two crew killed and one taken PoW but the losses occurred in the Luxembourg area.
Any use?

 

Unfortunately, RAF records of the codes carried by each aircraft and who was flying which seem sketchy. According to

Info on 103 Fairey Battle losses on the continent during mid-May, 1940 [Archive] - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

PM J was K9374 and was shot down near Mouzon.

14 May 1940: Battle K9374. Hit by intense flak during attack on bridge at Mouzon and believed belly-landed near Machault 3.40 p.m. Flying Officer T. B. Fitzgerald slightly wounded, Corporal Madkins unhurt. Aircraft PM*J a write-off.
Tom Fitzgerald was later awarded the DFC for this action.

 

From the hand written note it is headed end of MAY 1940 and the location is thought to be Northern France close to the Belgium border and the Mass river.
Regards
Tom

 

It also has on that site

K9374 is PM-J the Sgt Perry a/c crash landed near Machault very near Betheniville. There are a lot of photos of this plane including Gillet’s Betheniville book. Have also seen photos with attribution bei Machault (zwischen Sedan und Reims)
Perry DFM rec:
PERRY, Charles David (561615) Sergeant (Pilot)
D.F.M. (immediate) London Gazette 14 June 1940
Recommended 18 May 1940
This N.C.O. was seriously wounded by two bullets in the thigh and stomach during a low flying attack against the enemy on 14.5.40. Sgt Perry piloted his aircraft to the vicinity of his base until finding himself fainting he force landed.The action of this N.C.O.showed great courage and stamina.
Sadly he died in England a month later of bullet wounds to the stomach.


and yet in Rich's post on the same thread Info on 103 Fairey Battle losses on the continent during mid-May, 1940 [Archive] - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

Which report on K9374 do we think is correct - or I have got that wrong??

TD

 

Is the date on picture of Mark IV on the rail car correct? I didn't think the long barrel cannon and stand off armor came until much later.
Great pictures and story. I can't ID the tractor in the orchard though.

 

TD,
This location at Mouzon looks to be the right area as it is in the Area of Northern France and the Ardent by the river Maas (German spelling).
The fact that the Pilot was badly wounded and repatriated later passing away from his injuries certainly appears to be the same plane in the incident.
I wonder if the crew bailed out under orders as the pilot attempted to get back to his own lines?
Regards
Tom

 

Very likely to be correct as Lt Fröhlich was constantly being recalled to Berlin and Wűnsdorf (Panzer development and Testing centre), to take new models etc for testing on the front and the write an evaluation report. Apparently a Qualified Engineer pre-war and helped get him his posting and officer status.
Regards
Tom

 

Looking at the units he served in I would say that these are from Panzer-Regiment 36 in 1943.

 

On the French web site it says that the 3rd member of the crew was not seen/found and was perhaps absent - not sure about that, and there details as such only show 2 crew. I also note that they use the other quoted forum (Info on 103 Fairey Battle losses on the continent during mid-May, 1940 [Archive] - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum) as a reference, and the thread quoted above in particular

https://www.google.fr/maps/place/08...0x8a5d44f9ca98a99d!8m2!3d49.355262!4d4.499246

TD

editeed to add:
Is it possible to find out where your friends father was in France around the 14th May 1940?

 

TD,
I will ask when I see him next Friday, but there was no diary kept by his father as far as I know.
With regards to the Mk 4 Panzer I am enclined to agree that it is 1943 and not 1940.
I have no idea who provided the notation on the photographs as suspect it may have been a family member.
I find it hard to believe that Lt Fröhlich has mistaken a Battle for a Hurricane.
Regards
Tom

 

The date is certainly wrong. All Pzkfw IVs in France were armed with a short barrelled (L24) 75mm gun. The long barrelled Pzkfw IV F2 was prototyped in Nov 41. The Schurzen additional turret armour (visible on the photo) was first used in March/April 1943 along with sideplates, not visible here but some times missed off or removed.

A single prototype of a Pzkfw IV D fitted with a 5cm gun was produced in 1940, but as there was only one the first photo can't date from then.

I'm no kind of expert on the Pzkfw IV but I also think the panzer uniform on display could help date the photo, as in France 1940 they would likely be in the big floppy panzer beret. People who know would be able to identify the Mark of the Pzkfw IVs in the photos.

 

The first Pz.IV has a turret number that starts with a 9. That indicates that the tank belongs to the 9.Kompanie and the man in question served with 9./Pz.Rgt 36 which indicates the 9th Company of Panzer Regiment 36 in 1943.
Panzer-Regiment 36 belonged to 14 Panzer-Division and from April to September the division was in reserve in Western France but was in Russia in October/November 1943 at Krivoi Rog (Army Group South).

 

Tom

Be interesting to know if the German Regiments kept Diaries as the British/Commonwealth Regiments did.

TD

 

The parent division and the subsequent higher commands did. A lot of them are held in the archives in Germany with copies held at NARA in the US but most were destroyed in a fire during the war at the place where they were all stored and others probably sit in the Russian archives or in dusty attics.

 

I've posted about the chap called Perry before but can't remember where. I'm pretty sure it was on my Facebook page as a chap who's father was a RAF photographer with Fairey Battle shares images with me.

I'll have Perry's DFM citation along with a couple of books about Battles that will record the loss. I'm currently at work so I can't check anything.

Get him to contact me if he's like me to put him in touch with him, he knows a lot about Fairey Battle in France during 1939/40 and has hundreds of photo's in a private collection.

 

Rich -If you get a chance tonight search my FB page for Perry. The post is in February of this year with the details. You should be able to copy a link to this page.