Help needed - unit ID

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Roger Harfield, Nov 20, 2022.

  1. Hi all i recently found an old photo of my granded during ww2. I was hoping somebody may recognise anything in the photo that could give ma clue as to the type of unit he served in uniforms or the vehicle ect. ww2.JPG
     
  2. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    You might be in luck but I am no vehicle bod. Cap badges look like Royal Engineers, so does the vehicle seemingly based on a Churchill Tank body.
    Plenty of AV/RE experts who should be able to help.
    I initially thought it was in NW Europe but the apparent KD lt could be Italy or even Middle East.
     
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  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I'd say it was a Churchill Ark with the ramps removed.




    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Hi Target thank you for your reply I do know from another photo i have that he served in the sinai desert in 1942. Do you think this could be the same place?
     
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  5. This is great thank you so much.
     
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  6. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    For those like me who didnt know:
    List of specialist Churchill tank variants - Wikipedia

    Location could be anywhere in Palestine or Egypt, in which case probably on an exercise.
    Could be post war as they aren't wearing Divisional flashes.
    Two men are in different uniforms one (front left) in battledress trousers, one in darker KD.
    Neither are wearing the standard Webbing Belt.
    The one front centre might be wearing a cloth (officers) cap badge but doesn't seem to have epaulettes on his shirt.
    Perhaps one is going home and the other a new arrival.
    The others are in well worn KD.
    I'm not sure how many went there for training but 1st Infantry Division were there from Feb 1945.
    They served in Tunisia and Italy 1943-45.
    Which is your Grandad?
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2022
  7. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

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  8. Thanks again for all the info,my grandad is the first top left.
     
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  9. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Corporal stripes on his arm.

    No other insignia visible.

    A pipe smoker .:pipe:
     
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  10. JDKR

    JDKR Member

    Although not helping answer the main questions of the post, perhaps the man standing front left is not a soldier as he is very much the odd man out wearing neither a beret nor khaki KD trousers.
     
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  11. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Battledress trousers.
    Note the map pocket & field dressing pocket.
     
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  12. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    Roger, What was your grandfather's name?
     
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  13. His name is Samuel Wright
     
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  14. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Ark bridges were used extensively for the Final Offensive in Italy in Apr 45 when the challenge was to cross the mighty Senio, Santerno and Sillaro rivers. The dress in Roger's photo makes me think that they are in Italy.

    upload_2022-11-21_10-13-35.png

    Regards

    Frank
     
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  15. This is a great photo and information thank you. I do have one question what were the chances of surving the war in this kind of job? My grandad did make it home and lived a good life but i can't help wonder about the others in the photo.
     
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  16. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    If you apply for his service records you can find out what unit he was in.
    Then you can get copies of the unit war diaries.
    That should tell you what actions he was involved in and the casualties they suffered.
     
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  17. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    I would agree with Owen:
    If you apply for his service records you can find out what unit he was in.
    Then you can get copies of the unit war diaries.
    That should tell you what actions he was involved in and the casualties they suffered.

    You will find in Service Records (if all the files are there) where he enlisted, training courses that he did and all the places he was posted to.
    Any time off sick or wounded, hospitals or medical centres that he was sent to.
    The Service Records are actually Pay codes so that he can be paid (or deducted) for his services just like worker in a factory.
    It's all in Army jargon and codes which members can help to transcribe if you post the sheets on here.
    Thats entirely up to you.
    It will cost you for the records but make sure that you use the official channels via .gov
    You will need to send a death Certificate to prove he is deceased otherwise he will have to apply himself.

    Best go to Get a copy of military service records for advice.
    Things are changing fast as records are being moved to the National Archives to eventually be digitised for online access.
    I am personally not exactly sure where we are with this, others on the forum might help you further.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2022
  18. JDKR

    JDKR Member

    Could be ‘borrowed’ clothing.
    I have a suspicion that the potential civilian is an Italian partisan as he has that look to him. That might also explain the random military dress. Have absolutely no way of proving this, just a hunch.
     
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  19. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Sappers were always in the thick of it. They are what the Army terms Combat Support - they assist the Combat Arms by providing mobility and counter mobility.

    In the case of the Senio, the infantry would have forced the crossing in boats and secured the far bank. The Sappers would then have been brought up to cut a hole in the massive bank and through that hole drive the Ark bridge. Once in place, the armour can moved across, link up with the infantry and push on.

    The Germans feared armour so they always tried to stop Sappers from getting their bridges in. That meant that Sappers were constantly machine gunned, mortared and shelled with artillery as they put their bridges in.

    Regards

    Frank
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2022
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  20. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    These are examples of the type of actions where Engineers were indispensable.

    Advance to the Gothic Line north from Florence, Italy.
    Following the Recce Jeeps they drove downhill into Borgo San Lorenzo to be the first Artillery to ford the River Sieve, while the Engineers were constructing a new Bailey Bridge. A few desultory shells landed nearby but the convoy moved on.
    The stark jagged grey mountains of the Gothic Line loomed ahead of them as the vehicles threw up
    a cloud of dust. They knew that this was an OP Officers dream, they waited for the scream of shells
    but nothing came.

    Badia di Susinana in the Senio Valley
    On October 1st the 67th Recce party reached Palazzuolo sul Senio quickly moving on to Badia di Susinana,
    the guns followed them on the 3rd October.
    The 67th Field Regt and 75th Medium Regt were moved up to provide support.
    There was no room for any more Artillery until the engineers could build bridges and clear the roads towards Faenza.
    After three weeks and many casualties the 67th Field Regt were relieved by the 2nd and 19th Field Regiments.
    The advance up the Senio Valley was inevitably slow.
    There were many bridges on the road passing Mt Ceco, one in particular took much time to replace.
    This was before Casola Valsenio, being 100 metres long and 30 metres above the gorge.
    It would be a month before the Indian Division took the town.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2022
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