Help needed please (Royal Engineers)

Hi,
This is my first time on this Forum (any forum actually) and I would greatly appreciate any help that can be given.

I have recently obtained my Grandad's military records and I need a little help.

A little background history:
Firstly My Grandad, whos name was John Middleton died in 1983 when I was 4 years old. I knew as I was growing up Grandad John was in WW2 but nobody actually knew what he did exactly as it was before he met my Nan. There was talk he was in the Royal Engineers and others said he was a Parachuter but as he never spoke about his time in the war it was all a mystery. The only memory my dad has was he noticed he had a scar on his back and he asked him how he got it. His answer being he got it jumping out of an Aeroplane.

Anyway....I have now got these records and it showed he was a Sapper in 261 Field Park Company Airborne Royal Engineers which later became 261 Airborne Park Squadron Royal Engineers between 1940 and 1946 and his trade was a blacksmith.

My questions are:
As a Blacksmith, what kind of work would he be doing during the war? Pre enlistment he worked as a textile worker and after he was released in 1946 up to retirement he was an engineer. I was a little shocked to see him listed as a Blacksmith.

Majority of the time his place of casualty is down as being "UK" or "Field" (not quite sure what "Field" means) but his records state:
26.05.43 Disembarked for North Africa
27.11.43 Embarked for UK S.O.S. B.N.A.F
10.12.43 Disembarked UK
Would anyone know what his company would have been doing in North Africa during this time?
14.08.44 Disembarked N.W.E. (which I presume stands for North West
Europe).
04.10.44 Embarked UK
Again would anyone know what his company would have been doing in North West Europe during this time?
If it helps his records show he received the Italy Star, France/Germany Star, Defence & War (Medal) 1939-1945 medals (even though no one in the family have seen or know anything about these medals)

25th - 27th March 1945 he was admitted to hospital for "Severe fractured spine". This could tie in with his story to my dad about the scar on his back. I am not 100% sure on which hospital it is but it could be Chichester. Obviously I want to know more. Is there any way of getting hold of a copy of his Military medical notes or are these not available? If you can get them who/where should I write to?

The next entry after his stint in the hospital says:
03.01.46 GR & R DBRE
27.04.46 Posted to "Y" list (class "A" release)
Would anyone have a clue what any of this means?

I'm sorry this post is long winded but I have so many questions in my head & I'm trying to decipher what was going on. I am a complete novice.

Many thanks to anyone who is able to be of help

Angie xxx

 

Angiemidd

Interesting records as he went out to North Africa AFTER that campaign had finished but the 1st Airborne were still there - so he might have been in aunits repairing their equipment to be ready for the invasion of Sicily and Itlay - which would give him the
Italy Star....

Then back to North Africa to embark for the UK once more - then again after
D Day but in time for both before and after Ahrnem ....then in March '45 - he MIGHT have been involved with 6th Airborne for the Rhine crosing when he broke his spine.....Jan '46 he was in the base depot somewhere and on the Y (Unemployed list) until demobbed to class "A" release
Might help if you could scan his records for more detail

Cheers

 

Angiemidd, welcome to the forum.

As Tom says, if you can scan and post his service records it would help.

As for the medals, you can write Veterans UK and they will help you out. There is an application form at the bottom of the page to claim medals if your Granddad didn't.

Claiming for campaign medals

In the Field - if he wasn't in the UK he was in the field where the conflict possibly was or had been, with his unit doing what they were trained and responsible for doing.

Hospital records are almost impossible to find unfortunately. As for what he was doing, every unit kept daily war diaries. If you post his records, someone can sort out exactly what units he was in and when and can tell you what war diaries are relevant to his unit.
The war diaries can then be obtained from the National Archives in London. There are a couple of folks on here who will go copy them for you for a small fee. They charge MUCH less than the National Archives will for copies of the same documents.

Others will be along shortly I am certain to assist you further.

Wayne

 

The Royal Engineers are made up of every kind of trade and skill. That does not mean they are employed in their particular trade, far from it....

The Field Companies were in the thick of the action. The variety of trades in the company ensures that what ever is required, then the Sappers can usually provide it.

I had my spine fractured in eastern Holland Overloon Venraij... (desultery shelling) It is likely that the Sapper mentioned would have (Like me) spent a considerable time in a whole body plaster, known as a "Spica"
Sapper

 

AngieMidd

The date of 14th August embarking for NWE is consistent with being a member of the 1st Airborne Division Seaborne Tail for operation Market Garden. I attach the relevant page fvrom the War diary (see bottom of page fro Seaborne Tail)
The date for returning to the UK in October is also consistent with the dates of return of these troops.

John

 

Hi Angie

If you can get to the National Archives these are the files you should look at, they are his units war diaries:

WO 166/3730 261 Field Park Company 1939 Sept.-1941 Dec.

WO 166/8169 261 Company 1942 Jan.-Oct., Dec.

WO 166/12122 261 Company 1943 Jan.-Apr., Nov., Dec.

WO 175/659 261 Company 1943 May, June

WO 169/10677 261 Field Park Company 1943 July- Oct.

WO 171/1609 261 Coy 1944 Jan.- Dec.

WO 171/5530 261 Company 1945 Jan.- Apr.

WO 171/8516 261 Airborne Sqn. 1945 May - Dec.

WO 171/9529 261 Field Pk Sqn. 1946 Jan.

The airborne connection doesn't appear to start until after the war when his unit went to Norway (WO 1718516). Do his service records confirm this or do they mention 'airborne' at a earlier date?

If you can't get to Kew to see these files just click the red link below.

Cheers
Andy

 

03.01.46 GR & R DBRE There is listed - Officer Commanding Release wing of the Depot Battalion Royal Engineers - General Reserve and Release (from service) to reserves.

 

Angie

The file that the document I attached came from is WO 171/1609 as per Drew's list. As you'll see there was an Airborne element in 261 at the time of Market Garden.

John

 

Dear all,

Wow thank you so much for your responses. You have been so kind. I will try & scan his records and put them on here as soon as I can.
Andy - Getting to Kew is quite difficult for me as I'm in Manchester working full time & 2 small children. I really want to go one day but at the moment I just isn't possible. Thank you for list of files. Will probably use your link.
John - Thank you for the attachment. I will have a good read of that.

Angie xxx

 

Hi
I posted yesterday about my Grandad's military records (what he could have been doing in N. Africa & NWE and about his time in hosp) and some of you kindly replied with some good information and it was suggested I scanned his records and post them. There are 4 records in total but as I'm new to all this I may have to put them up 1 at a time.





Will attach more

Angie xx

 

More records



Angie xxx

 

Angie xx

 

View attachment 86078



View attachment 86080

Angie xx

 

View attachment 86084

Thats the lot (phew!)

Thank you to everyone who understands any of these papers ;-0

Angie xx

 

Angie

Thanks for posting these - I see that he was Parachute qualified as well.

John

 

AngieMidd -
Fairly standard stuff and we have covered most of the information you gave us initially - so you don't have to go to London - Drew can copy all the diaries that you need - for a small charge - it's worth it ......and will marry up with his records !

Cheers

 

Angie,

Hello and welcome to the forum.

The war diaries will help you see where your Grandfathers unit travelled.

As far as I am aware, as for casualty lists, unless an officer, the casualties are usually just listed by rank and number killed or wounded in action.

I see that your Grandfather fell foul of being late returning to unit by 23 hours 31 minutes and was given 14 days CB and 4 deducted 4 days pay.
It looks like he also had to forfeit another days pay as well.

I can only image he missed a train or transport.

The notes regarding hospital mention what I think is Chester and I cannot see any abreviations. I wonder if Chester had a spinal injuries unit?

Regards
Tom

 

Hi Tom

Yeah he was AWOL again 7 mth later - this time for just shy of 3 days!! bizzare thing was he only got 3 days confinement to barracks & loss of 3 days pay. I wonder why he got a leaner punishment for being missing 2 days 10 hours 45 mins than he got when he was missing 23 1/2 hours??? Very intrigued as to what he was getting up to ha ha ha ;-0

Angie xx

 

Its not always bad Angie- My GF's grandfather went AWOL over Valentines Day during the war - 9 Months later her mother was born

 

Hi Angie,

Looks like John was in 261 Airborne Field Park RE from 14-4 45 I have his name on my database....

Cheers
Tom