Help make a Vets Day. 2 Royal Horse Artillery Africa/Italy Pictures Required

Can anyone tell me about this Regiment or add any links on the net?

I'm more interested (obviously) in what they were doing in 1940 rather than N. Africa.

I've just had a quick look in Ellis's 'The War in France and Flanders' and it only shows them in II Corps as Corps Artillery and that they were one of the first units on Mont des Cats with only two guns and acting as Infantry in some cases.

Cheers for any information.

Andy

 

Bit here in the Regimental history 2nd Regiment Royal Artillery

 

Had another quick chat with a former member of the regiment today and found out they used 25 Pounders and he fought through France in 1940, N. Africa and finished his war in Florence, Italy in 1945. I gave him a picture of a relatives war grave today that I had taken and copies of some of my BEF 'Then and Nows'.

I'm still looking for any pointers regarding them in 1940 though? If I can find some details like the 5 RHA thread that Idler started I'll try do a thread in my usual style with pictures and with his permission his personal recollections.

I've noticed that a BSM Tirrel received a DCM at Mont de Chats but the citation reveals very little other than he kept a gun firing on this hill.

Come on you Gunners....Where are ya?

 

In 1939 they were part of 1 Armd Div Support Group along with 1 RHA and 101 LAA/ATK Rgt. Although the division didn't go to France immediately, it's two RHA Regts did. 2 RHA at that time consisted of H/I & L/N Btys equipped with 25pdr Mk1 (18/25 pdrs) and Dragon tractors.

By the 30th October they were in position at La Bassee as GHQ Troops. On 9th December they moved to relieve 91 Field Regt at Allennes under command 3 Div.

In May 40 they were in action around Louvain with H Tp East of the Dyle and I, L & N Tps to the West. At 1600 hrs on the 16 May they were ordered back to cover the Dendre at Nossechen under command 15 Hussars. When they arrived they couldn't find anyone and after a delay they moved to Eekent via Brussels & Ninove.

On 20 May the Regt reported its gun troops leap frogging back covering the rearguard of 3 Div via Oudenarde to Dottignies where it came into action covering the Escaut from Escanaffles to Pecq.

They were then transferred to 42 Div south of Lille. Down to 16 guns they were at Verhoek and then withdrew to La Paradis and eventually Monts des Cats.

On 27 May H Troop came under heavy fire and 2 hours later 200 enemy infantry appeared 700 yards away. They were engaged over open sights and the Troop pulled out when the enemy was just 400 yards away. H Troop then gave covering fire for I Troop who retired to a position east of the canal where it continued to engage enemy infantry. After laying down a smoke screen at 1800 hrs to block the view from Morbecque church, H Troop moved to new positions about 2 miles north east near the village of Grand Sec Bois.

More to follow after I give my tired old fingers a rest.

 

2 RHA continued:

At 2100 hrs on the 28 May H Troop moved north east to 2 successive rendezvous where they waited for orders. Finally at about midnight L/N Bty's commander told them they were to take part in the defence of Monts des Cats for the whole of the 29th and were then to make for Dunkirk. The Regiment was now down to just 2 guns.

After escaping from Dunkirk the regiment assembled at Downton near Salisbury and by the end of the month new 25 pdrs began to arrive direct from the factory. In July they moved to Rushton in Northants as part of 2 Armd Div. In October they were warned for overseas service and the regiment embarked at Liverpool on the Cunard liner Scythia arriving at Suez on the 29 December 1940.

As a footnote, I joined 2 Regt RA in 1965, they had lost their RHA status some years previously. The regt then consisted of L, N & O Btys and the standards and traditions of the RHA were still maintained. I went on to serve as Battery Survey Sgt in O Bty and later in L Bty. Although 2 Regt no longer exists, thankfully the Btys still do and have regained their RHA status.

Derek

 

There is a Dragon tractor going hell for leather as 3 Div pull out of Leuven on this Pathé film :-

British Pathe - TIME TO REMEMBER - RUN RABBIT RUN ( 1940 ) - reel 3

Not towing a 25 pdr though.

 

It's a 2 pdr Anti Tank gun. From what I have been able to tell from photos of the BEF, the Dragon's were mostly used by the RHA and A/Tk units.

 

Many thanks all.

 

He told me he was in H Battery today.

Derek, is the H Troop a typo and should read H Battery?

Regards
Andy

 

Picture of the 2 RHA Regt moving across the frontier east of Roubaix in support of 12th Lancers on May 10th 1940, the first British Guns into Belgium with the 25-Pdr towed by a 'dragon'.

 

Cheers Rob.

Just spent the last 10 minutes scanning and e-mailing Andy the same b----y picture and caption he asked for.

Rob

 

Cheers Rob.

Just spent the last 10 minutes scanning and e-mailing Andy the same b----y picture and caption he asked for.

Rob

Oh no!!!
I'am going to bed.
sorryyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

 

Not your fault Rob. You are being very helpful as you always are.

I'm going to bed as well.

Rob

 

H Troop is correct for 1939-42 after that it was H Bty. Field regiments were reduced to 2 Btys as it was thought that survey could not keep up with 3 or 4 Bty Rgts in a modern mobile war. In early 1942 they went to 3 Btys per Rgt as the survey process proved fast enough and it made more sense to have 3 Btys in a Rgt supporting a Brigade of 3 Btns.

In the case of 2 RHA, the original btys were combined to form H/I & L/N Btys and the original bty letters were used for the Troops hence H Troop, H/I Bty. On the change to a 3 bty system N was transferred leaving H, I & L Btys.

 

Hi Derek.

Please can you explain the term survey?

I know there were RA Survey Regiments, so both linked I assume.

Thanks - Rob

 

Survey is the process of accurately plotting the gun's position and ensuring that all guns are pointing the same way. When a Troop or Bty comes into action their position is plotted on the map by the Gun Position Officer and Specialist. This position is only as accurate as the GPO's map reading skills. Guns are put on line by laying on to the Director, a kind of simplified theodolite, at a bearing given by the director operator. This ensures that all guns are laid with their barrels parallel. The Director is set up using an in built compass. Again this is only as accurate as the compass on the director which could be affected by some local metal source deflecting the needle.

Any inaccuracies at Tp level are corrected when firing by the OP adjusting fire on to the target but if more than one Tp is used then you have a problem. For example, if A Tp's grid reference is out by 50 yards north and B Tp's by 50 yards south, when A Tp is adjusted on to the target and both Tp's fire, B Tp will miss the target by 100 yards.

To overcome this, survey is carried out at 2 levels (3 post war). A regimental survey party will fix a point on the map in their area that can be accurately plotted such as a crossroads. From this point they will carry forward a survey scheme to each Tp. This consists of placing a number of inter-visible survey poles between the start point and Tp and fixing the position of each pole in turn. To fix a poles position a bearing and distance to the pole is taken which when combined with the grid lines on the map will produce a right angled triangle.

You now have a right angled triangle in which you know 2 angles, the measured one and the right angle, and one side, the measured distance. From this you can use the Pythagoras Theorem to determine the other 2 sides. These 2 measurements will be the difference North/South and East/West from the original grid reference. If this is applied to each pole in the scheme in turn you finish with an accurate plot of the Tp. When this has been done for each Tp in the Regt all Tps will be on the same grid and any inaccuracy in the start point will be common to all.

Line is also carried through by laying back on the previous point at the measured angle or by setting all directors in the Regt on a common reference point, usually done at night by a moon or star shot. All directors set the same bearing and using radio or telephone, lay on the object and track it until a countdown from the Regtl Svy Officer reaches zero.

While this is going on the Survey Regt carries forward a survey scheme to all regiments in the division or corps. So as each scheme is completed, units upgrade their survey state from Bty to Regt to Div or Corps meaning that all units at that level can fire on the same target accurately after using a single gun to adjust the fire on to the target.

It was the survey process that made British and Commonwealth artillery so deadly, enabling it to bring down fire from widely dispersed units onto a single target. Without survey each participating Troop would have to be individually adjusted on to the target.

Sorry for the long winded explanation but it is a fairly technical process and I have only given the basics.

Derek

 

Derek.
Exelent tec!
I know this Regts medium guns could come into action very quickly after arriving at their destination, do you have a time span for the above.
cheers
Rob D
PS. Now i should ask you to explain Calibration to the chaps so we can bore everyone to death, he! he!

 

Difficult to put a time on it as there are so many variables involved but with well trained gun crews a Troop should be in action in under 5 minutes for Field and around 10 minutes for Mediums. If the Troops are close together and both visible from the Bty CP they could be on Bty grid in under half an hour.

For Regimental grid it would depend on how widely spaced the Btys were and the terrain. In open country and with the Btys within a mile or so of each other it should be possible to survey in a regiment in an hour or so.

The Survey Regts had a much harder job having to carry the survey scheme over long distances, sometimes as much as 30 or 40 miles or more. But they had more manpower and much better instruments that meant they could measure distance by instrumentation instead of having to use physical means of measurement.

Explain calibration ? Sorry can't find an icon for "evil grin"

Derek

 

Rod and Rob...Many thanks for that 2 RHA picture. Word got back to me today that the veteran was overjoyed beyond belief at the sight of that picture (You will forgive me for not going into too much detail due to the nature of the contact I have with him).

On his behalf I pass on his thanks-A job well done !

Andy

 

I am now looking for some more pictures related to 2 RHA during their time in Africa and Italy.

I saw a picture today of one of their guns in Italy which I assume is a Priest SP Gun?

So any pictures to help put a smile on his face-Even if they are pictures of any land marks he would have seen whilst serving with 2 RHA would be great.

Many thanks again chaps.

A