Help interpreting Glider Pilot's service record

Discussion in 'Airborne' started by sheffdave2002, Oct 29, 2013.

  1. sheffdave2002

    sheffdave2002 Member

    Hi there,

    I've been researching my Grandad's WW2 service - he was a glider pilot who was taken prisoner at Arnem, and have gotten hold of his service record.

    I wonder if anyone can help me make sense of it as there are all sorts of abbreviations etc that I can't make sense of!

    I've attached some of the relevant pages here and I'd be grateful if anyone could provide any insights.

    Thanks!
    David
     

    Attached Files:

  2. DPas

    DPas Member

    Think this is all of it - any questions, ask away!!!

    The first three entries refer to 48 ITC. These were Infantry Training Centres.

    July 42 - he was posted to Tilshead. This was the Regimental Depot for the Glider Pilot Regiment where Fargo Camp was located. They would have had to endure relatively harsh training conditions here.

    June 42 - he was promoted to U/A/Cpl (Unpaid acting corporal), followed by P/A/Cpl (Paid acting Corporal)
    Then sent to 29 EFTS (Elementary Flying Training School) He would have learnt to fly small powered aircraft here like a Tiger Moth or Miles Magister.

    15th Sep - He was promoted to full corporal WEF (with effect from) 15/9/42

    6th Oct - He was granted 7 days leave from 6th to 14th Oct

    14th Oct - On to 4 GTS (Glider Training School)

    24th Feb 43 – Promoted to Unpaid Acting Sgt (Sergeant)

    20th Feb 43 – He got his wings!!! Eg he was a fully fledged glider pilot

    15th March – he became a Paid Acting Sgt

    17th June – he went off to North Africa arriving 27th June

    17th July – He was posted to 1st Battalion Glider Pilot Regiment

    19th Aug – promoted to War Sgt

    27th Nov – he began his return journey to UK arriving 23rd December

    22nd Jan – he was wounded during an air raid while on leave

    12th Feb – Posted to Y List – this was a term for when someone had been away from their regiment due to injury/wounds for 21 days or more. When they were fit they could be returned to any regiment, not necessarily the one they came from. He seems to have lost extra pay as a result
    After this he was posted back to the depot and by July posted to No 2 Wing Glider Pilot Regiment

    29th Jul – Promoted to Acting Staff Sgt (S/Sgt)

    17th Sep – Can’t read but this was the start of Market Garden – eg he flew to Arnhem

    26th Sep – He was reported missing and Struck off Strength (SOS)

    25th Sep – he was confirmed as being a Prisoner of War

    11th April 1945 – He returned home and put back on Y List

    1st June 1945 – He was back to Sgt after being acting S/Sgt

    Can’t read some of the next bits but it does outline some of the medals he received.

    25th Jul – he was back with the Glider Pilot Regiment at the Depot (Tilshead)

    3th Aug – Posted to 1 Wing
    Following this he was moved to F Squadron (my Grandad’s old one!!!)

    10th Sep – he was promoted to Unpaid Acting S/Sgt and then Paid Acting S/Sgt

    8th Feb 1946 – Posted to No 2 Wing

    10th Jan 1946 – Became a full S/Sgt


    Given that he was in North Africa he would have likely been on operation Ladbroke as part of the invasion of Sicily.

    I looked him up in the Glider Pilots at Arnhem book (By Mike Peters and Luuk Buist). Strongly recommend you get a copy of this if you want to learn more. Mike Peters also wrote a book on Glider Pilots in Sicily but have not got around to picking up a copy yet.

    He is listed in the back of the Arnhem one as being in 11 Flight, E Squadron, No 2 Wing (It works this way - there were two wings, within these there were squadrons, within the squadrons there were flights). That means he would have left for Arnhem in a Horsa (towed by a Dakota) from Down Ampney. He was taken POW and was in Stalag XI B (Fallingbostel).

    I will be back in a while with more detail and a few links and ideas for you,

    Dave
     
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  3. brithm

    brithm Senior Member

  4. DPas

    DPas Member

    Sorry, I am not sure how much you know already, so forgive me if this is old hat or if it is the other extreme, sorry for information overload!!!

    You will find lots of stuff on the regiment here, and also application forms for joining the Regimental Association as an associate member if you wish to. I would recommend it!!!

    http://www.gliderpilotregiment.org.uk/


    No 29 EFTS was in Clyffe Pypard. You can find some details of what that was about here

    http://www.paradata.org.uk/content/no-16-elementary-flying-training-school-efts-raf-burnaston


    No 4 Glider Training School was at RAF Kidlington. He would have learnt to fly a Hotspur Glider here



    The war diary for No 2 Wing (including E Squadron is here) and outlines what happened at the battle of Arnhem

    http://www.pegasusarchive.org/arnhem/frames.htm


    Someone might be able to check out which RAF squadron towed his glider (Chalk No 241). If so there would be an Operation Record Book at Kew for that squadron and it may have a raid report outlining exactly what was being carried in his glider. These records are in digital form and can be ordered online without any hanging about. There is sometimes other information in these about accidents, etc. The level of detail varies.

    There are also records for all of the EFTS and GTS but I have no idea what they are like - I have only recently ordered them and awaiting there arrival.

    There may also be a few photos about the place.

    I am sure this will give you lots to go on for the moment, but feel free to ask more.

    All the best with it,
    Dave

    EDIT: Almost forgot - as well as Brithm's suggestions on the POW end you can also apply to the Red Cross for POW details. Details on how to apply are here:

    http://www.redcross.org.uk/About-us/Who-we-are/Museum-and-archives/Resources-for-researchers/Records-of-prisoners-of-war
     
  5. JJS

    JJS Senior Member

    Welcome to the forum David.

    Like Dave (DPas) I would definitely recommend joining the Glider Pilot Regimen Association. they're a great group to be a part of. That's quite a history your Granddad has, good luck sifting through the detail.

    Parnel.
     
  6. sheffdave2002

    sheffdave2002 Member

    Thanks for all the help and advice - I wasn't expecting so much so quickly and I'm amazed by how much you can figure out from these records...

    I've been having a good look at the sites you all recommended and have ordered both the books too!

    Regarding the Kew records, is there a way anyone has come across to access them digitally? I suspect not from what I've seen so far, but I'm based in the US until May so won't be able to get down there for a while..

    I remember my Grandad talking about being in Tunisia and as I recall they visited a family that he'd got to know there while on holiday in the 1980s. I don't know anything about what he did in Tunisia though so I'll be intrigued to look into it..

    He never talked about any of his wartime experiences until very old, when I was able to interview him about some of these things before he died but wish I'd had chance to ask more questions - he still had his old battledress and capbadge (he'd got a new beret to attend the 1994 commemorations in Arnhem as he had worn his old one for gardening until it eventually fell apart) and we've got various letters and papers relating to his service I need to have a good look through.

    Thanks again for all the help!
    David

    PS - I've attached the rest of the service record that I got in case there's anything relevant
     

    Attached Files:

  7. DPas

    DPas Member

    From the other records, he was also in Stalag 7C in Silesia (Present day Poland). Most of the rest is self explanatory but if there is anything in particular you are not sure about stick up another post.

    As for the records at Kew. Some are available for download but they are in the minority. You can order CDs/DVDs direct from them but that is quite expensive. Your best bet is there are a few guys on the forum here who go there on a regular basis. They photograph the pages and send them to you for about 10p per page. It is by far the most cost effective way of getting hold of records that are not available to download.

    Another piece of information for you. The other chap in the glider going to Arnhem with your Grandad was Sgt Eric D Hardy. He managed to get across the river and back to England. However, sadly he died in a flying accident less than a year later:

    "Eric Hardy was born in Chesterfield in the second quarter of 1913. His father William Godfrey Hardy was a coal miner filler and lived with his wife of five years at 14 Back Lane South Street New Whittington Nr Chesterfield. Eric’s parents later lived at The Beeches, Worksop Road, Swallownest.
    Eric Hardy joined the 2nd Wing, Glider Pilot Regiment, Army Air Corps where he was a Serjeant, service number 4755630. He is reported to have been killed in a flying accident in Devon on 31 May 1945, aged 32 years old. He is buried in Aston-Cum-Aughton Cemetery, and left a widow and two children."

    The CWGC entry is here http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2406316/HARDY,%20ERIC

    Know the feeling about not asking enough questions! But doing the research is rewarding.

    Dave
     
    Cee likes this.
  8. Lindsay Aspin

    Lindsay Aspin Senior Member

    Dave (DPas) - Thank you for your fantastic support given to David (sheffdave2002).

    Members on this forum kindly gave their expert advice and time freely towards my own research, for which I am ever grateful.

    Another avenue of research open to you, David, is to write to the Editor of The Eagle (the magazine of The Glider Pilot Regiment). An enquiry placed in this magazine about your grandfather might bring forth further information. Contact details below:-

    David Brook,
    Birds Hill,
    Gt. Bealings,
    Woodbridge,
    Suffolk. IP13.6NR.

    As Dave (DPas) suggests you can contact members on this forum who visit the National Archives regularly. I've used this wonderful service and would recommend it wholeheartedly.

    I would suggest you might like to think about becoming a member of the Glider Pilot Regimental Association. When I joined the GPRA I found so much more information about my father who was a member of B Squadron, 1 Wing GPR. The greatest find was a photograph ... Dad is first on the left in the photograph used for my WW2 Talk avatar!

    Good luck with your searches.
    Lindsay
     
  9. JJS

    JJS Senior Member

    I love the story of the beret, it puts life in perspective really doesn't it. But I can't help wondering if every time he donned his beret and worked in his garden thoughts of his friends and time spent in the Glider Pilot Regiment came flooding through the weeds!
     
  10. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    It could be just a coincidence, but it's interesting that Sgt. Farnes arrived in North Africa at about the same time that Operation Turkey Buzzard was occurring. I'm not sure where you would look to prove or discount that possibility.

    Operation Turkey Buzzard - Wikipedia

    Regards ...
     
  11. DPas

    DPas Member

  12. Paul Pariso

    Paul Pariso Very Senior Member

    Not the greatest pic I'm afraid but this is Walter with other members of No.7 Course at No.4 Glider Training School at Kidlington back in 1943. He was a Corporal at the time the picture was taken.

    All the best :)
     

    Attached Files:

    DPas likes this.
  13. airborne medic

    airborne medic Very Senior Member

    For what it is worth he is on the Apeldoorn list and also the train he left there on....
     
  14. DPas

    DPas Member

    Do you have much information on Apeldoorn? I know my Grandad was there but have no real information.

    I have seen mention of Krone Wilhelm III Barracks in Apeldoorn in Peter Clarke's account (Pegasus Archive) but no detail and mention of St Joseph's Hospital in the account of Major Simon Frazer (The Eagle Vol 7 No 6 Dec 1993 and Vol 7 No 7 April 1994). I assume Grandad was in the latter but have no idea for sure.

    Would you mind having a look for Sgt John Wetherall 14414511?

    Thanks
    Dave
     
  15. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    Dave

    I have this for Sgt Wetherall.

    As regards S/Sgt Farnes I have checked my lists re Sicily and he doesn't appear on any of the lists for Ops Turkey Buzzard, Ladbroke or Fustian. He is shown in GPs at Arnhem as in chalk 241 which flew in the KOSB

    John
     
  16. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    Sorry missed out the attachments
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Thanks for checking John ... :)
     
  18. DPas

    DPas Member

    Thanks John - You sent me those when I first joined the forum. The first to help me (along with Lee checking for E&E docs) and I have not forgotten it!!!

    It was more the mention of Apeldoorn. Grandad was pretty much out of it from the bullet in the face and the PIAT ammo exploding beside him so he never had any detail about it. If he is on some other list somewhere it might help pinpoint his movements.

    Sorry for hijacking the thread!!!

    Thanks
    Dave
     
  19. Pompey Pal

    Pompey Pal Member

    Hi Dave,
    my understanding was that the co-pilot on CN241 was Sergeant DG Hardy 4749826, who escaped across the river - per Glider Pilots at Arnhem page 338.

    John is correct in saying they carried men of the KOSB, either elements of HQ Coy, B Coy or sections of 6 pdrs, MMG or mortars, towed by 271 sqdn. They will have landed on the western side of LZ S, North of the railway line and Wolfheze.

    Staff Sergeant Farnes had the POW No 118556 at Fallingbostel

    Kind regards
    Graham
     
  20. DPas

    DPas Member

    Graham - you are absolutely right. Ignore what I said. Sorry for the confusion

    Dave
     

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