Help find out

My fathers army record is incomplete, the missing time is from 24/07/43 to 23/03/44. Many years ago he mentioned volunteering for Anzio, as a driver on a supply chain. This did not mean a thing to me at the time, but when going through his paper work after he passed away I found some post cards of Salerno, army issue Italian phase book and 10th corp patches. I know this does not mean a thing without an army record, but could he have been in Salerno?
Albert Edward Collins was with102nd LAA RT Regt D troop (Lincoln) posted to 337 AA RA on the 22/07/43. Army No 14381973. If there is anyone who could help I would be grateful.

Regards
Lotus7

 

Lotus 7

The fact that your Father had the Xth Corps patches is a good indication that he was indeed at Salerno or near to there and possibly at Anzio also

as the latter date would indicate - before they took off for Egypt…his number indicates that he joined up in the jan/ Feb '43 to serve his six weeks

initial training with the General service Corps before further limited training - possibly with RASC before heading overseas as the landings at Salerno

took place on September 9th '43- so he was possibly with either 46th or 56th Division…..

any other clues…?

Cheers

 

Hello and welcome to the forum Lotus7
Could you post his army record on here please so we can help more? Have you any photos you can post too? Is the record just a summary of his time in ww2?
The reason I am asking is because now the MOD in Glasgow supply FULL service records for a fee of £30, in which they show much more detail. If you have a look at my father's army records you will see they usually hold a lot more detail.
[sharedmedia=gallery:albums:70]

Lesley

Edit: here is the link to apply for service records in case you need it
https://www.gov.uk/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records

 

From an order of battle i got from the milhist website a while back (links seem to be down at the mo) these are the anti aircraft units with 10 Corps for September 1943 (around time of the salerno landings)

10 Corps - Anti aircraft Artillery
- 12 Anti-Aircraft Brigade, Royal Artillery
- 9 Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiment, RA [3.7-inch Guns]
- 57 Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiment, RA [3.7-inch Guns]
- 87 Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiment, RA [3.7-inch Guns]
- 13 Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment, RA [40mm Guns]
- 14 Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment, RA [40mm Guns]
- 52 Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment, RA [40mm Guns]
- 56 Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment, RA [40mm Guns]

Also the 115 Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA [40mm Guns] were attached to the 46th Division.

I've not got a listing for the 56th Division, so possible the 337 AA RA might have been attached to them.

Also i think the Beach Groups involved with the landings also might have had small components of AA units with them so the 337 AA may have been one of them

 

Lotus7.

If he was in X (BR) Corps at both Salerno and Anzio then I suspect that he was associated with 56 BR Inf Div. They were the only British Division that served at both locations.

Regards

FdeP

 

Lotus7.

102 LAA Regt RA were raised from 7th Battalion Lincolnshire Regiment in Dec 41 but that unit spent its time in NW Europe rather than in Italy.

FdeP

 

Hello Lotus7,

I believe the 337 AA RA is probably easily explained, as the 102nd LAA Regt, RA, has three batteries - 336, 337 and 338. So, 337 AA RA is most probably shorthand for 337 Bty, 102nd LAA Regt, RA.

What is not easily explained is the Salerno connection, as this regiment appears to have served only in the UK until June 1944 when it joined the fighting in NW Europe.

Any other clues?

Best,

Steve.

 

Lotus7.

Nice to see you on the Forum. Once again, I recommend that you apply for Albert's Service Record, as this will answer your questions. I checked my e-mails and see that I mentioned this to you in July of last year, shortly after you made made contact with me.

I refer you to back to my thread about 102 LAA Regt, in which you kindly supplied some great photos about your Dad's Croix de Guerre (Belgium). (See post 10)

http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/42605-102-laa-light-anti-aircraft-regiment-royal-artillery-336-337-338-batteries/

The whole of 102 LAA Regt never left the UK and only served abroad after Mid June 1944 and then went to North West Europe. After disbandment in March 1946, men with a high age/service group were posted to other units.

Regards - Rob

 

Attached are the 102 LAA Regt war diaries pages from July '43 to March '44, showing that they were in the UK during this period.

It's possible that Albert Collins served in Italy before joining 102 LAA Regt. I recently looked at the service record of an Artillery Gunner who served in North West Europe, but his relatives had photos of him dressed in Middle Eastern attire, which was a complete mystery to them. When his service record arrived, it showed he'd served in North Africa and been hospitalised in Alexandria. Due to his medical category on discharge, he was posted back to the UK and after a full recovery, joined a unit serving in NWE.

 

Thanks for the info you've all provided so far.

I have already requested my Father's service record and I've attached what they sent me. This seems to be incomplete as the period 24/7/43 - 22/3/44 is missing, now either when they sent the paperwork they missed copying a page or it is genuinely missing from his record but other than paying again and seeing what I get I am a bit stuck with what I have received from them.

I had assumed that the missing period related to time in Italy because Dad had things pertaining to Italy with all his other medals etc including the Italian Star medal. The rest of his paperwork makes no mention of Italy, so what I am trying to establish is if Dad is listed as being in Italy at any point which would account for him having the items he had. Dad was notorious for volunteering for anything that took his fancy so it wouldn't surprise me if he popped up anywhere !

Is there records of people who volunteered to serve while their unit was based in the UK ? Conversely is there records that list people who served in Italy or indeed is there any other proof that he was in fact in the UK during this period ?

As Rob has already said to me this maybe a mystery that I will never solve but I live in hope that someone will be able to supply the missing link.

Regards

Lotus7

 

It looks to me like he stayed in the UK until he embarked for North West Europe in June 1944. There doesn't seem to be any pages missing to me.
A quick phone call to the MOD to ask if you have all of his service records. Just be firm and ask them to pull the file again and have a look-be persistent-sometimes they find other documents :wink: .
No mention at all of receiving the Italy Star-it would normally be on the records you have received.

Lesley

 

You mentioned he had the Italy Star amongst his belongings, but the interesting thing from his photo when he was 80, is that he is not wearing the Italy Star. Vets are normally very meticulous about what they have been awarded and are entitled to wear. I would still send the Firepower Museum an enquiry, as they have all of the service details as well.

 

Thanks Guys, I will try and make contact with the MOD and Firepower and see how I get on. My biggest regret is that I didn't find out more detail from him before it was too late but getting him to talk was very difficult as I know it is for lots of veterans.

Regards

 

Have you a form like this? It lists the medals awarded

 

Hi not a daft Q' yes I have those papers. He was born 20/07/24 in London. Date on enlistment 17/12/42. Trade on enlistment Projectionist. Hope this is helpful.
I can't thank you and Rob enough for all the help advise and guidance. So when I get round to writing his history I have the right and correct info.

Regards
Lotus7

 

So does it say which medals he was awarded? Not the Italy Star?

 

Hello Lotus7,

Did your father have any brothers, or male cousins that was very close to, of WWII service age that possibly pre-deceased him?

He may have volunteered to serve at Salerno to be near a brother, or similar, but that request was turned down...

Best,

Steve.

 

Hi your right it does not mention the Italy Star, may be he did get the things I found from another source.

 

Lotus

more likely that he found the Italy star and the Xth Corps badges as he is only wearing the 1939/45 Star - France & Germany Star -

Defence and Victory medals-so probably never near Italy

Cheers

 

Hi Steve thanks for your thoughts, you could well be right. Dad did follow his elder brother into the army. He was one of the youngest in the family, we had lots of holidays with all the family as they were close. I can recall a lot of funerals as I was growing up, ie his brother, brother in laws and yes his cousins, the last of them passed away last year. As far as I know none of my cousins are researching their Father's army history so I have no knowledge on whether any of them had served in Italy or not.
I just want to make sure when I write up his history I get it right. It's so easy to make an assumption from things you find and what you think you remember. I've had so much help along the way so thanks once again.

Regards
Lotus7