Help Deciphering Service Record

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by Thorwodenson, Feb 28, 2022.

  1. Thorwodenson

    Thorwodenson Member

    Hi there,

    I'm struggling to understand the information on my grandfather's service record. I'm sure this type of post is extremely common, but I've searched for hours and I'm still struggling, so I was hoping someone could help me understand what the information means to try and figure out where he served and in which conflicts, if possible. I'm also struggling to read a lot of the handwriting, so I'll post the images in the hopes that someone will be able to decipher it.

    The first thing noted is that he was posted to the 34th Signal Training Regiment, R.A., as a Gunner in "A" training battery.

    After that is a bunch of hand writing that I struggle to read (will post images), and the following postings which I can read:

    • XI ME - XITB 1.9.41
    • TOS. Xi R.A. IND. 23.3.43
    • CH (unable to read the rest of that line) 13.4.43
    • X2 IND 13.9.43
    • 40 DIV INF TPS WKS REME. 22.9.43.
    • ORD DEPI AGRA XI CHTSD (DEHO) Xi 5.4.44 (unable to read some of that line, could be wrong, but I'm guessing it's ordnance depot Army Group Royal Artillery 11)
    • Jaoc 1.5.44
    • Unable to read next line
    • 176 FLD 9.3.45
    • Y List 24.3.45.
    Does anyone know anything more about what any of that means? Also, is anyone able to decipher any of the handwriting in the images? Also, I've seen "XL" written a lot, does anyone know what that stands for? Can't find anything about that as an acronym.
    DSC_0292_2.JPG DSC_0294.JPG DSC_0296_2.JPG
     
  2. Andsco

    Andsco Well-Known Member

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  3. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    Take it steady and all will be revealed. You have a list of postings which I am not familiar with probably a record card rather than a full service record.
    The Army use Service records to follow a mans progress and postings for administrative purposes such as his pay and costs.
    There is a list used in all of these called the X List. The X is followed by small roman numerals ie. vii which designate his status in the system. Most common is xii which means he was off sick. xi means he is available for duty. xiii prisoners of war or held further to disciplinary action xiv waiting to be posted to a unit xv attending training course.
    There is also a Y list and Z List for those leaving the service either completely or to the reserve.
    Your person was discharged medically unfit for further military service on 18th March 1945 so was either sick or wounded.
    Lets take a look at your list: XI ME - XITB 1.9.41 Xi = posted to duty ME = Middle East ITB = Infantry Training Battalion
    TOS. Xi R.A. IND. 23.3.43 TOS = Taken on Strength CHQ Command or Company Head Quarters 2 Echelon means support unit ie Quartermasters Stores
    CH (unable to read the rest of that line) 13.4.43
    X2 IND 13.9.43 X2 is a mystery but probably relates to a posting to India 70 Division Inf (infanrty) TPS Transport support pretty sure that WKS REME =Workshop Royal Electrical Mechanical Engineers
    40 DIV INF TPS WKS REME. 22.9.43.
    ORD DEPI AGRA XI CHTSD (DEHO) Xi 5.4.44 (unable to read some of that line, could be wrong, but I'm guessing it's ordnance depot Army Group Royal Artillery 11)
    Jaoc 1.5.44 ORD DEPi AGRA Ordnance Dump (Ammo) Army Group Royal Artillery DEHQ
    176 FLD 9.3.45 176 Field Regt
    Y List 24.3.45. Released to reserve

    It would seem that he began Army life as a signaller in the Royal Artillery in 1940 then became a REME fitter with he RA and at some stage served in India.
    Others may com along with more knowledge and find out more but I hope that this is a beginning. You really need to post his full Service Record to get much further.
     
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  4. Thorwodenson

    Thorwodenson Member

    Thanks for the reply! Some really interesting information there. My father was sure that his father served in Burma as well as North Africa. The North Africa part is obviously confirmed by the Africa star, but there is no Burma Star on there, which is strange. Perhaps he was mistaken, or is it possible that not all medals are listed on that document?

    Also, unfortunately they didn't provide a full service record when I sent off for it from Army disclosures, there was also a discharge card which I can upload tomorrow, but still in this card format and not a full record like you said. When I first sent off for his service record, they said they couldn't find any record at all - but I managed to find his Army number from the R.A. Attestations, so I sent off again and this is what they came back with. Perhaps they still hold his full service record? How would I get it if they did?
     
  5. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    The most helpful form from which to track a man’s service movements is the B103 Casualty Record - often multiple sheets.

    It is not unusual for MOD to fail to provide that form and the usual forum advice is to get back on to MOD and request a further search for the B103 as it can result in a positive outcome.

    You have attached one side of the B102 central index card that was used to record some, but not all, of the information recorded on the B103 in military shorthand that is often difficult to interpret. The B103 has more detailed information in a more easily readable form.

    You have also attached extracts from his multiple sheet enlistment/statement of services form (B200D?).

    Not all men who were posted to India were awarded the Burma Star as there was a limited geographic area for eligibility.

    Steve
     
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  6. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    Sorry I had to abandon my previous posting but have taken another quick look in the cold light of day.
    It seems that he went to India in 1943 but was back in the UK with 176 Field Regiment in March to May 1945.
    Looking at the Website: 176 Field Regiment RA - The Royal Artillery 1939-45
    176 was a Holding Unit which means men were sent to them whilst awaiting assessment, a further posting, or discharge.
    He was then discharged on medical grounds.

    Regarding his Medals, I am no expert but would consider the fact that he was on strength of the Indian Army on their Internal Home (Training) Duties (We had an Empire then) so not eligible for the Burma Star. CHTS could be Central Holding Training School The DEHO is possibly referring to the famous Indian Holding and transfer Camp Deolali HQ RA Depot.

    I think the Xi RA IND might be posted to Royal Artillery India and what you see as Jaoc is possibly Paoc Pacific Area of Command.

    All guess work on these type of records I'm afraid in which others will be able to offer advice as and when they come along.

    Big thanks to Tullybrone.
     
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  7. JITTER PARTY

    JITTER PARTY Well-Known Member

    This is a really difficult one. Is this the only document that you have, or are others available?

    He seems to have been transferred to the RA in India.

    I think what looks like ‘CHB… 2 Ech’ could be GHQ (India) 2nd Echelon.

    The reference to ’70 Div Inf Tps Wks REME’ is puzzling. 70 Brit Div was in India at this time and would have had both a Div Tps Coy and a Div Wksp. Would the Div Tps Coy have its own Wksp?

    Clearly he has been transferred from RA to REME at some point.

    Next, I think it is Ordnance Depot Agra, which is a place in India.

    Dehu is also a place in India, and I am almost tempted to make a guess at something like ‘CMT?D’ as Command Motor(Mechanical) Transport ? Depot (Dehu), but we don’t like pure guesswork, do we?

    In 05/44 he was attached to IAOC – the Indian Army Ordnance Corps.

    There is no evidence of anything that would have taken him near Burma, but who knows what he got up to once attached to the IAOC.
     
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  8. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    May I suggest that you continue to dig for information via the forum and on various online sources. I only really have recent experience of the Burma campaign but have learned that certainly in this theatre of operations nothing often mans something.
    My relative spent much time in hospital, we thought he had not done very much until I came across books suggested by members.
    The admissions to hospital coincided with various postings which changed our minds.
    Dates on his Service Record coincided with his units activities in Burma. There was an 8 month gap in his dates which coincided with his units entry into Burma and withdrawal to Imphal. Arguably the greatest battle in WW2 in that theatre.
    Still only guesses but a damn site more believable when the dates and actions that he may have mentioned in passing coincide time and again.
    You really need to get the rest of his Service Records as suggested above but even if you cant, you might get close enough to satisfy your curiosity.
    Good luck.

    Thanks to Jitter Party. Now I will have to take my leave.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2022
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  9. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    Not wishing to put words in your mouth but maybe a few ideas in your head, follow this link: 70th Infantry Division (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia
    In particular consider the dates mentioned on the record you have and those of 70th Division in North Africa and India / Burma. Its disbandment and why.
    He came home a very sick man. This may (or not) have some significance. I have only quickly scanned the Wikipedia story line not read it properly.
    I will leave that to you.

    You need to identify which unit of the 70th he was with or whether the Indian Army Ordnance Corps was involved with them.

    Seems that you might have some interesting research on the horizon.
    Once gain Others could help you more than me. I'm afraid that I have other family matters looming which need my attention.

    Once again Good Luck.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2022
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  10. Thorwodenson

    Thorwodenson Member

    Thanks everyone for your replies. As for the other documents available, I have attached everything else that I have to this reply. Does any of it help at all?

    DSC_0298_3.JPG DSC_0299_2.JPG
    DSC_0300_2.JPG
     
  11. Thorwodenson

    Thorwodenson Member

    My father has told me that he was wounded twice, the last time was from a shrapnel piece that hit his knee cap which was apparently the reason for his medical discharge. Also, (just a story which was passed on, so I don't know how true it is), he apparently was on a hospital ship at one point.
     
  12. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    You seem to have most of the sheets, except the B103 casualty and service form. Best give them a ring and ask them to check the file again.
    Here's my dad's records, you can see his B103 forms.

    Ernest Illingworth, Army Records | WW2Talk

    Lesley
     
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  13. DianeE

    DianeE Member

    Did your Grandfather have a war pension?
    I had the same problem with a missing B103. My uncle received a war pension and form B103 was sent to the Ministry of Pensions. Unfortunately some years ago the forms were destroyed.
    Diane
     
  14. Thorwodenson

    Thorwodenson Member

    He did have some problems getting the pension I think, so it sounds likely the B103 was sent off and probably destroyed.
     
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  15. JITTER PARTY

    JITTER PARTY Well-Known Member

    It is a shame about the B103, because it is going to be difficult/impossible to reconstruct his service from the documents available.
    I've just noticed that in post #10 his service is given as Home/Middle East/Home with no mention of India at all. The previous records show that he was certainly in India from 43 to 44.
    Has anyone checked WO 417 for any mention of him being wounded?
     
  16. Gman142536

    Gman142536 Member

    Thank you to you and all those who help with information.
     
  17. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    There does not appear to be any mention of him in the Army casualty lists that give the names of those missing, wounded, POW, died, killed in action.
     
  18. Skoyen89

    Skoyen89 Senior Member

    Just reading this for the first time. is there a possibility he didn't go to India (and Burma) at all but served with Indian Divisions and IAOC in the Middle East?
     

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