Hello to All

Discussion in 'User Introductions' started by Paul Bradford, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Paul,

    Your second paragraph is addressed by Airey Neave who was also captured at Calais but was not in Nicholson's contingent.The other point is that Neave claims that Nicholson was not given clear instructions on the outset of what he should do in Calais.I think it was a case of getting units from England into Calais as soon as possible to meet the adverse dynamic situation in France.

    Airey Neave records that the armour of the RTR was shipped in one transport while the manpower was shipped in another transport.It appears this was a plan relating to a previous state of operations where the RTR was planned to locate to Pacy sur Eure in Normandy for training as part of the 1st Armoured Division..
     
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  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi Paul

    I believe some promotions did occur with POW's, possibly more often with aircrew, but as to the rules/regulations/why's/wherefores I have no idea, its something perhaps someone could explore especially on this site.

    TD
     
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  3. Paul Bradford

    Paul Bradford Active Member

    Harry,
    This is all very interesting and I am just looking to purchase a copy of Airey Neave's book. The internet is fantastic. So much information in a short period of time!
    Paul
     
  4. Pat Atkins

    Pat Atkins Well-Known Member

    As (very) circumstantial evidence, it certainly happened in the Royal Engineers in the First World War. RAF promotions generally seem to have had a regularity about them in the Second, too, though I can't say re POWs specifically. Would be very interested to know if this was the case for Paul's grandfather - needs someone with knowledge of that kind of thing, I guess. Some great work on this thread, congratulations to you all.

    Pat.
     
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  5. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    Bradford01.jpg

    Prisoner of War (Previously reported as Missing):
    Bradford02.jpg

    Bradford03.jpg
     
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  6. Paul Bradford

    Paul Bradford Active Member

    Hi Harkness,

    That is very interesting. The third sheet, numbered 40 states Previously reported Prisoner of War, now Not Prisoner of War. Is this a sheet reporting his release from captivity?

    Paul
     
  7. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    Yes - not dated, unfortunately.
     
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  8. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Regarding promotion of rank while in captivity I would think that all services had such a system where individuals were subject to promotion progress procedures.

    For the Royal Air Force, the promotion procedure was that airmen,AC2s,AC1s and LACs together with NCOs as POWs could be promoted by progression to the ceiling rank of Warrant officer...W/O.

    Commissioned officers as POWs below the rank of Flight Lieutenant (Pilot Officer and Flying Officer) could reach the ceiling rank of Flight Lieutenant.

    Promotion as POWs resulted in a claim for back pay on liberation.However there were issues related to both uncommissioned airmen whose pay was docked on account of the monies declared by the Air Ministry to have been paid to them by the German government....the POWs in turn declared that the monies paid were insignificant and it was impossible to spend the German camp money for there was nothing worthwhile available to buy.Commissioned officers had the grievance that their pay was docked in lieu for messing supllied by the German authorities....to which the officers declared that the POW messing standard was inadequate and much below the standard that AM undertook in normal service.

    Regarding aircrew,from June 1940,the minimum rank on attaining aircrew status was Sergeant meaning that those captured below this rank automatically were promoted to Sergeant.It was seen as a move to recognise their aircrew status and very importantly for protection of aircrew as POWs in that as NCOs they could not be forced to work,other than voluntarily by the enemy in accordance with the Geneva Convention.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
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  9. Paul Bradford

    Paul Bradford Active Member

    My Grandfather did tell me that when he returned, he had over £300 in back pay. An not inconsiderable amount in 1945. I asked him why he didn't buy a house as he lived in a prefab for the rest of his life? He replied that not having owned a house before, it wasn't something that he would have considered. I will have to obtain his record as I am sure that he told me that he was a Sergeant.
     
  10. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

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  11. Paul Bradford

    Paul Bradford Active Member

    Hi Steve,

    What an amazing story! I don't believe that we are related. That would be an avenue to research!
     
  12. Paul Bradford

    Paul Bradford Active Member

    I have just received a copy of The Rifle Brigade in the Second World War 1939-1945 written by Major R.H.W.S. Hastings, D.S.O., O.B.E., M.C. I purchased it via Amazon in the USA. It has a chapter on Calais, so that should make interesting reading. The book is in excellent condition considering that it is 67 years old! A first edition too for only $19.95! The postage cost more than the book!
    If anyone requires information from it, please let me know.
     

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  13. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Blimey Paul, that is rather cheap ( how the hell did you manage that)? I did once miss out on that book a while back that was up for auction on E-bay, but I lost it by a few pounds. I think it went for about £35.00 ... I did find a copy some time later via a charity shop for about 50 to £60. Well done you.

    Regards
    Stu.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
  14. Paul Bradford

    Paul Bradford Active Member

    I searched ebay etc, then did a google search. It came up with the book on Amazon.com. It would not let me buy it as the seller didn't offer international postage. The photograph showed the book minus the dust jacket. It looked in good condition and at $19.95 was too good a price to not buy it. I contacted the seller and expressed my interest due to my Grandfather being in the Regiment at that time. I said that I was quite happy to pay the postage. I had a reply from a very helpful seller who did all they could to facilitate the sale. Amazon allowed them a maximum of $17 or so for the postage. They asked me to buy it and then they would invoice me the remainder, which they did. The total postage was $23.84. It wasn't until it arrived that I realised that it was a first edition. I checked and found another first edition is advertised with Abe Books (whom I have used for other purchases) in similar condition for £120. I was lucky, but have no plans to sell it. Abe Books have a couple of signed copies as well for less, but missing the dust jacket.
     
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  15. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    It may be wise to get the other book. The London Rifle Brigade 1919 to 50. DURAND and HASTINGS by GALE & POLDEN. I paid less for the previous book & it was in a better shape. ( Don't sell any books that are in your collection) Its nice to see that you have purchased a book at a decent price. Some book sellers take the rise & that is putting it nicely.. Patience is the order of the day.

    Edit. In my opinion, dust covers & signed copy's give the book seller the OK for bumping up the price by a large margin.They should be ashamed of this practise. But I'm sure they will cart on!

    Regards
    Stu.:cool:
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
  16. Paul Bradford

    Paul Bradford Active Member

    Thank you for that advice Stu. My Grandfather was in from 1933. He had left in early 1939 I believe, only to be called up again. I will look for a copy of the earlier book too.
     
  17. Paul Bradford

    Paul Bradford Active Member

    Hello Harry,
    Regarding 'The Flames of Calais', I was able to buy a copy from ebay UK. I bought a First Edition with dust jacket for £8.50! I found it to be a really interesting book about a battle that I had never heard of. I would now like to find out in which Company my Grandfather served.
    Thanks again for the information.
    Paul
     
  18. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Paul....pleased to hear that you have located Airey Neave's book....nothing like reading the experiences of those involved in events first hand.
     
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