Hello all, need a bit of help

I noticed that last night but I was a bit reluctant to voice my concern but I have to say I agree with both TD and Amberdog , The Marriage certificate for what ever reason has been er `doctored`?

Kyle

 

Maybe just maybe the plot thickens - found this

Name: William Stacey
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1923
Registration district: Cannock
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Spouse: Gertrude A Stanley
Volume Number: 6b
Page Number: 1099

So did William Stacey leave/divorce Betsy (sometime between 1919 and say 1922) and marry again in 1923 the lovely Gertrude. Betsy then on her own winds up meeting William Rogers and they end up living together, but at some point they need a marriage certificate and decide to use the 1919 one and shall I say revise it to meet their requirements

TD

 

This could well be the 'other' Mrs Stacey
Name: Gertrude Annie Stacey
Death Age: 73
Birth Date: 2 Mar 1897
Registration Date: Jun 1970
Registration district: Cannock
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 9b
Page: 252

Sorry Geoff but this thread is becoming very intriguing indeed

TD

Added

From a family tree:

Gertrude Annie Stanley
1897–1970
BIRTH APRIL 1897 • Shareshill
DEATH JUN 1970 • Cannock, Staffordshire, England
Spouse
William Stacey

 

That's what I'm thinking TD.

 

Geoffs father Glyn died December 8th 2017 (address removed ) Nottage, Porthcawl, Bridgend, he lived formerly at St.Thomas, Swansea,survived by Valerie? England & Wales births 1837-2006 has his birth in 1934 ( Period July Aug Sept) his mothers maiden name is given as Dukes. TD /Amberdog as Geoffs father was born in 1934 from a `marriage` which has supposedly took place in 1919 ..thats a long period inbetween (not unique but certainly unusual) Geoff you may have opened the proverbial can of worms here!
On another note `my` William George Rogers` may come back into play he wasnt back in Civilian life until 1927 much nearer Glyns birth date ?

Kyle

 

Another thought

Are William Stacey and William Rogers two different people or are they the same person ??

As they say the thick plottens

TD

Added
Perhaps Glyns father was otherwise 'engaged' between 1919ish and 1933ish which would explain.

Checking for Stacey births 1924 +/- 10 years with a mothers maiden name of Dukes gives zero results.
Checking for Rogers births 1924 +/_ 10 years with a mothers maiden name of Dukes gives 1 result - Glyn in 1934

 

Swansea Electoral Rolls on Ancestry have one William George Rogers 34-35, then there's 2 in 1945. Back to one for years 46, 47 & 48. 2 for 49 and 51.

Then back to one entry for years 52, 53, 58, 60 & 64.

 

You mean this Roll
Swansea and Surrounding Area, Wales, Electoral Registers, 1839-1966
Name: William George Rogers
Residence Year: 1934-1935
Street address: Fabian Street 15
Residence Place: Glamorgan, Wales

Although I note she is Betty and not Betsy


Thats the address on Glyns copy birth cert for his parents home

TD

 

1939 Register no Betsy Rogers but there is
Betty Rogers? Although she was born December 5th ? This entry shows the year as 1899? Shown as a widow ,one more closed entry and a Ivor Henry born 8th July 1908?
12 Inkermann St

Kyle

 

The Betsy is also altered on the wedding cert to read Betty.

Died June 1980, Swansea, Betsy Rogers 5 Dec 1896.

Was there any incentive to declare yourself a Widow on the 1939 Register? Did you receive more rations if you had children? My Gran declared herself a widow too, when she was just separated.

 

Kyle

We need to be careful as there was a Betty Dukes who became a Betty Rogers

Name: Betty Dukes
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1945
Registration district: Burton
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Spouse: Raymond F Rogers
Volume Number: 6b
Page Number: 1096

TD

added:
England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1916-2005
Name: Betty Dukes
Mother's Maiden Surname: Langley
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1925
Registration district: Burton
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume Number: 6b
Page Number: 650

 

Hi TD,
Caution noted. I only posted the Swansea Betty Rogers,
I note your Betty Rogers had a spouse Raymond F Rogers? Unfortunately there are ,to complicate things further ,more !
From the 39 Register
39 Lonsdale Road , Smethwick C.B., Staffordshire, England
Betty Rogers born 30 March 1900 her spouse was Frederick E Rogers born 23 Oct 1899

I only concentrated on a Swansea connection with the date of birth in the search box, I cannot even widen it to Wales because there was a William George Rogers born in Wrexham at the same time and a Glyn Rogers born Wrexham in 1934! Plus another two Betsys Rogers from Staffordshire too

Kyle

 

Hi everyone,

Can I just say how amazed I am at the help I'm getting here, I'm totally flabbergasted! After reading the posts from last night I decided to sign up to Ancestry and look at some records myself, in fact I've spend the last 5 hours ploughing through entry after entry!

I've just come back to take a look on this forum and WOW, you guys are coming up with names that I'm familiar with.

Just briefly:-

I had thought something was fishy with the 'R' etc on the wedding certificate
My Nanna Rogers (Betsy Dukes) didn't like being called Betsy and always referred to herself as Betty Rogers.

Speaking to my mother today, she told me that Betty always talked well of William Rogers explaining that if she hadn't have had to come back to Swansea from London in around 1936-38 the they would have still been together, however, my mother explained to me about Ivor (whom I have a picture of) was always around the house in Inkerman St, St Thomas, Swansea. My Grandad (William Rogers) came back from London to see his son (my father Glyn) as he was still working up there, but my dad was taken into a back room and William wasn't allowed to see his him, that was the last time he was seen as he returned either to London / Stafford or down the south coast as I've found out he had two sisters, Doris and Freda Rogers (don't know maiden names at the moment).

It's all a bit much to take in at the moment as it's getting rather complicated, I've started doing the family tree on Ancestry with the pictures I have and will add as many as I have got given time. I haven't made it public as I thought I might be too much information in the general public domain but I'm more than willing to give you guys access if you email as required through Ancestry as I'm still working out how it all works.

Once again I'm totally blown away from what I'm reading and would dearly love to get to the bottom of it. I will have more information in regards to Betsy and Rose as Rose's daughter lives in The midlands so my mother is trying to contact her.

Thanks you all once again and yes it most defiantly is a 'can of worms'

Regards

Geoff

 

PS From what Betsy told my mother, my father was an only child, she had lost 6 previous pregnancies though misscarriages, possibly still birth so my father was a very wanted child and he was doted on accordingly. Maybe that explains the gap between marriage and having her first child, having said that given what is unfolding there could be many other reasons.

Also either Freda or Doris had a daughter Pearl if that helps.

Geoff

 

Its always a bit overwhelming when you start out, but settles down when you get familiar with records.

Do you know if your father was called Glyn after anybody in the family?

There was a Glyndwr Rodgers born Bridgend Sep 1900 and a William George Rogers born Dec 1896 Bridgend.

Findmypast might open your Dads 1939 entry if we were to present his death certificate to them.

 

Hi Geoff,

Just to clarify is the Inkermann Street `Betty` I posted earlier the correct one ? (That will end that line of enquiry)

When your Grandfather was refused access to his son (Your Dad) and he returned to London never to return Does that end his `Wales` connection in regards to residence ?

Without giving too much away from your tree do you know who your Grandfathers father (Your Great Grandfather) was ? I know the `marriage certificate ` states Thomas Rogers however its been doctored so I cannot really take that document seriously it may have been altered to gain social approval ? I`m doubtful there was an `official` marriage in 1919 between the two based on that certificate.

Kyle

 

Hi everyone,

Trying my best to answer everything I can......

Betty and Betsy from either 7 or 12 Inkerman St, St Thomas were the same person. Ivor Henry got involved somehow and was apparently helping Betsy out with my dad. William George Rogers was living there at the same time, lodgers had been taken in in the past to help financially over the years but Ivor Henry seemed to become a more perminant fixture after William George's disappearance, wether to family in the south, London or Cannock but William was by far and away the more alpha male of the two being into fitness etc, he would help Ivor out in any physical fights if he'd been drinking too much as his eyesight was very poor, only reason I mention this is that I don't think Ivor would have won over Betsy, more possibly something else happened. Ivor had been kick out of his own house and she took him in after Rose (Betsy's sister) said she should help him. What that relationship turned out to be we don't know as it was very closed doors, my father never talked much about it.

My Great grandfathers name as far as I know is William Thomas, no different unless the story changes.

I can put up my father death certificate on here, would just ask everyone if it's safe to do re: security etc as it will contain recent information.

As far as William George Rogers not coming back to reside in Wales we never thought so, but then again who knows, his son was here, my mother always tells me that William Rogers loved his little boy and would take him out every night in London after work and my dad cried all the way back home to Swansea after the air quality was causing him respiratory problems, my father always remembers that and I think it stayed with him all his life.

I'll post up a few pictures etc in a minute that may help a little but it is most defiantly a quagmire!

Regards

Geoff

 

Stupid question but how do I know if the wedding certificate for William George Rogers and Betsy Dukes is an original as I can't see and dates except for the wedding date?

 

Pics, please not how happy Betsy Rogers look so in the picture, I know people didn't smile that much in photos back the but...!

 

Birth day/month match the 1939 Register (Inkerman St):

Name: Betsy Rogers
Death Age: 83
Birth Date: 5 Dec 1896
Registration Date: Jun 1980
Registration district: Swansea
Inferred County: West Glamorgan