Heavy Bombers In Normandy

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by Dac, Aug 22, 2005.

  1. jimbotosome

    jimbotosome Discharged

    The benefit of living eyewitnesses over an autobiography is that you can ask exactly the question you desire as opposed to having to construct and answer from relevant points. For those of you who have worked Jury Duty, I really do believe that hearing both sides, most of the time, helps you determine the real facts. The real facts are often an aggregate of two biased views. You can also determine the earnestness of the witnesses and deduce from that whether they tend to be truthful people or not. You can also compare exaggerations to see if one has a weaker case by the frequency and magnitude of its use. Historians to me are often like lawyers. They are masters at trying to make one side or the other look bad and the other good and look “objective” all the time. They can present just the facts they want you to see. But the other side presents critical facts which the first one left out which sort of indicates that the first does not believe in its case and deceived by omission.

    Think of it in the more extreme case of “conspiracy theories”. If the conspiracy didn’t deviate from the conventional wisdom, who would by it? Without revisionism history is merely academic. What would be the point? You are right Morse, people are inherently biased and self-serving.

    I would like to get an autobiography of Monty to hear his side of things. I don’t know where to find it. Any suggestions? Did he write one? (is that a stupid question?)
     
  2. 4th wilts

    4th wilts Discharged

    must remind you,brad was only a corps commander before overlord.he then became c/o u.s 1st army.montgomery nurtured a good general.yours,4th wilts.
     
  3. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Most of the "facts" here bear little resemblance to the truth. Me? I dropped out the postings were getting so stupid and just daft that I had little patience for any of it.

    The post war tidal wave of legends, half truths, and utter garbage are of such massive proportions I cannot cope
    Sapper
     
  4. 4th wilts

    4th wilts Discharged

    i think people should understand montys brilliance in bringing on lesser generrals.eg bradley was only a corps commander,who then became an army c/o,then after only a few months was then an army group c/o.monty brought him on quite well imho.yours,4th wilts.
     
  5. 4th wilts

    4th wilts Discharged

    dempsey too had only commanded a corps,before becomming c/o of 2nd brit army.i think monty did a wonderful job bringing him on as well.yours,4th wilts.
     
  6. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Lee

    I do agree that Monty had an excellent team around him and his commanders were willing to go the extra mile for him. However his appointments werent always perfect, Bucknall's command of XXX Corps springs to mind and he only went on Alan Brooke's insistence.
     
  7. 4th wilts

    4th wilts Discharged

    bucknall played a crucial part in the overall success of the normandy campaign in the british sector.yours,4th wilts.
     
  8. 4th wilts

    4th wilts Discharged

    he commanded xxx corps on d-day,did he not.
     
  9. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    He did but he was replaced by Horrocks during the Normandy Campaign

    Here is an excerpt from a site relating to XXX corps:

    Following the abortive attempt to capture Villers Bocage in mid-June 1944, Lt Gen. Bucknall was dismissed (along with 7th Armoured Division commander Maj Gen Erskine and 22nd Armoured Brigade commander Brigadier “Loony” Hinde) and replaced by Lt Gen Sir Brian Horrocks, who then led XXX corps until the end of the war in Europe
    source page: Route to Victory :: History
     
  10. 4th wilts

    4th wilts Discharged

    is this the conservative attack by 7th armd div and 51st div, to capture caen in a pincer attack,with the hoped for airbourne drop south of caen,stamped upon by tedder,etc?.got my mum to press the shift button there,look a qustion mark.yours,4th wilts.
     
  11. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Goodwood was the pincer movement.
    sapper
     
  12. 4th wilts

    4th wilts Discharged

    i understood goodwood was one of several pincer movements.yours,4th wilts.
     
  13. 4th wilts

    4th wilts Discharged

    did dempsey not sack bucknall,then replace him with horrocks,with montys consent.yours,4th wilts.
     
  14. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Bucknall was indeed sacked Lee and replaced with Horrocks.
     
  15. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    Bomber Command Operations Normandy Battle Area 7 July 1944.

    The Canadian 1st and British 2nd Armies were held up by a series of fortified village strong points north of Caen. The first plan was for Bomber Command to bomb these villages but, because of the proximity of friendly troops and the possibility of bombing error, the bombing area was moved back nearer to Caen, covering a stretch of open ground and the northern edge of the city. The weather was clear for the raid, which took place in the evening, and two aiming points were well marked by Oboe Mosqutioes and other Pathfinder aircraft. The master bomber, Wing Commander S. P. (Pat) Daniels of 35 Squadron then controlled a very accurate raid. Dust and smoke soon obscured the markers but the bombing always remained concentrated. 2,276 tons of bombs were dropped.
    It was afterwards judged that the bombing should have been aimed at the original targets. Few Germans were killed in the area actually bombed, although units near by were considerably shaken. The northern suburbs of Caen were ruined. No German fighters appeared and only one Lancaster, of 166 Squadron* was shot down by Flak. Two further Lancaster's and one Mosquito crashed behind the Allied lines in France.

    'Bomber Command Diaries' - Middlebrook - Everitt.

    * Lancaster III ND678 AS-Q.
     
  16. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    And we were covered in ash and debris from the bombing, we were that close. The only people killed were French.The enemy had withdrawn out of the City.
    Sapper
     

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