Hawkins Percy WW2 - regiment and service number hunt

Hi thank you for letting me join your group.



I’m trying to find out more information about my grandfather’s (PRIVATE PERCY HAWKINS) military days during WW2. WHICH REGIMENT WAS HE IN? WHAT WAS HIS SERVICE NUMBER? Etc.



My late grandfather was PERCY HAWKINS (master sagger maker by trade) from Meir/Uttoxeter/Longton in the potteries, Staffordshire. Born 21/12/1913. He married my late Grandmother GLADYS HAWKINS in 1937. His parents were Edmund Francis Hawkins and Julia Martin. They had two sons Alan who died at birth 1937 and my recently late father Kelvin HAWKINS.



So the family story goes like this … Percy was called up at some point and joins the war. He definitely didn’t volunteer and sign up. It seemed most of his school mates who hadn’t either got called up at the same time. We think or it’s been long assumed it was the north Staffordshire regiment. He did his training (something tank related we think).



Straight after training, when the time came to be deployed to North Africa with all his mates he came down with flu/tonsillitis and the army doctor refused to sign him fit so he had to stay behind.



At some point during his army years, he also had surgery on his thyroid, but the surgeon managed to stitch his skin to something in his throat, every time he swallowed the skin on his neck showed it was puckered/creased and attached somewhere it shouldn’t have been.



Anyway, so whilst he was recuperating he liked to paint watercolours, and being without a regiment the powers that be sent him to Scotland (he said it was in the middle of nowhere, wet and cold). He joined the operation fortitude painting cardboard tanks to deceive the enemy that British forces would cross into Norway.



During the D Day landings his talents were needed in Kent to suggest a massive force was ready to cross the Channel into Calais. Again all fake propaganda, designed to confuse.



After D Day, he was shipped to British India, which he remembered took an age. We again assume he was doing the same work up to a point.



He did tell my late father he was in Rangoon and Mandalay and they crossed into Burma from British India.



He quickly realised his long distance eyesight was better than average and although the bren gun was exceptionally heavy it had a longer range than the enemy, meaning he could get them with a bullet before their bullet stood a chance. Now he was also used to heavy labour as a sagger maker, beating clay into a mould.



So with all this in mind Percy wanted to keep hold of this gun at all costs. But every day the Bren gun was passed from one man to another, traditionally, dog tags (minus the current operators) were put into a cap and the next Bren gun operator was chosen. Once the new operator was chosen (after a long day fighting the enemy), my grandfather would say ”I’ll fight you for it”. Now initially some did put up a fight, but most played injured quite quickly, probably due to the shear weight of it in a jungle. So Percy was quite proud of the fact that he had sole control of the Bren gun for his entire tour.



He also said his officer/commander put his name forward for a medal once. He used to get the immediate urge to open his bowels when under fire. And one particular battle was taking forever. He decided that his bowels couldn’t cope any longer so he stood up from his position, with the Bren gun level with his hip, and mowed down the enemy, just so he could relieve himself quickly, before soiling his uniform.



He also refused his promotion from private because if he got captured the enemy were harsher on higher ranks. And staying a private was his best chance of survival if captured.



He often spoke of a young boy who he befriended whilst in Burma. No idea of his name, my father seemed to think there was a possibility that the young boy was Percy’s illegitimate son, but this has never been confirmed.



Percy also mentioned lots of Australian army in Burma too. And he often talked about the Gurkhas excellent fighting capabilities and headless chickens still running minus their heads.



Percy stayed about 6 months after the war had ended to demob the locals before returning to his wife in Staffordshire.



My mother seems to think he mentioned being in Worcester and Sherwood Foresters, but my father doesn’t recall that he thinks it was the Black Watch. Having said that they are all relying on 30+ years memory, and they could all be wrong.



But I still have no idea what his service number was or which regiments he served with. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you xx

 

Hi,

Welcome to the forum.

Your only way forward is to apply to UK MOD for his service records. It costs £30 and takes about a year due to Covid backlogs.

Requests for personal data and service records: a detailed guide

While provision of an army service number would be helpful MOD will search on a full name and DOB and turn up his record.

Once you have the record I’m sure you will have many more questions to ask of forum members.

Good Luck

Steve

 

Hi Steve

I’ve already downloaded the forms and printed them. I’ve ordered death certificates for Percy Gladys and my late father Kelvin to prove I am next of kin and only living descendant. I just thought if I could find regiment and or service number it would help them.

 

As a Master Saggar Maker in the Potteries, he may well have been in an reserved occupation initially?

 

Guy

Possibly that’s why it took so long to get his call up papers. After the war the pottery museum wanted him to go and demonstrate to the visitors. He was the youngest saggar maker given the title master according to my dad. Unfortunately although he tried, he developed a frozen shoulder from carrying the Bren gun for so long, so he had to refuse.

 

I have an update my grandfathers service number 5053967 I’m waiting on national archives auth closed record release.

 

Hi

His service number is from the sequence 5038001 - 5094000 allocated to the North Staffordshire Regiment in 1920 which would have continued in use for new recruits to that regiment until July 1942 after which all army recruits were enrolled into the General Service corps and issued a number from that corps sequence.

In almost all cases the soldier retained his initial number during his army career, even if he transferred from one regiment/corps to another.

His number does not show in the WW2 Army Casualty lists on the ancestry website, but these near numbers appear & may help with his enlistment date as they would have completed both basic & further training before being sent overseas.

5053916 BROUGH Pte J.W.A. died as a result of an accident in India 6.5.1942 with 1st Bn North Staffs
5053906 LAWTON Pte C. killed in action with 2nd Bn North Staffs in North Africa 29.4.1943

Travers

 

Thank you

I know my dad said that if grandad Percy had been well enough to go into action after training to Africa he probably wouldn’t have been born because all of grandads training regiment (possibly tanks?) never came home from Africa. And dad was born after the war.

 

At least you know he was in the UK for Operation Fortitude in early 1944. I don't know wether men involved in this were attached to it & technically stayed their original unit or transferred to another corps involved eg Royal Engineers.

Looking at battalions of the North Staffs that may fit your grandad's memories, the only battalion of the North Staffs that went to North Africa was the 2nd Bn which went over in 1943. The 1st Bn had been in India since 1932 & remained there until 1948 with 6 months in Burma from 1943.

There was one battalion the 9th, that was transferred to the Royal Armoured Corps in 1941 but they did not go overseas & were disbanded in 1943.

As mentioned earlier the only way to be sure of his exact movement & postings is to get the service record & the above is only options.

Travers

North Staffordshire Regiment - Wikipedia
Operation Ironside - Wikipedia

 

Thank you very much for your advice. my grandfather’s records arrive soon xx