Hatred is dangerous

Discussion in 'The Holocaust' started by kowalskil, Oct 16, 2013.

  1. kowalskil

    kowalskil Junior Member

    Racism: a social disease

    I am worried after reading the "Stop Syjionizmowi," published in one of the Polish websites, not in English:

    {Admin note. I've removed the link, as links work both ways (and we already have quite enough nutters of our own without attracting more), but if anyone really feels inclined to find the page, it can be googled with "JAK ROZPOZNAĆ ŻYDA?" (How to recognize the Jew) on a page called 'stopsy jonizmowi' (stop Zionism)... Why anyone would bother I don't know, but there ya go. ~A }

    I did not read the well-known forgery: "Protocol of Elders of Zion," fabricated over a hundred years ago in Tsarist Russia. But this Polish post is probably more nonsensical and more poisonous.

    The author writes, for instance, "the greatest criminals, murderers and traitors in history were mostly Jews (Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Dzerzhinsky)." This statement is false: none of them was a Jew. Also false is the claim that "The Jewish religion is not ... based on the Old Testament." The article is full of such nonsense; I think that the author knows this very well. But I have no desire to argue with him. This kind of propaganda is very dangerous; it may lead, under some conditions, to a new wave of massive tragedies.

    Who should criticize and expose authors of such articles? I do not think that this should be done by Jews. Our (Jewish) participation in the fight against potential murderers should be reduced to criticism of anti-Polish statements made by some Jews. And our day-to-day behavior should demonstrate that we are not liars, thieves and murderers, as claimed in the slanderous article.

    At the forefront of the struggle with Polish anti-Semitism should be Poles - right wing, left wing, theists, atheists, scientists, and ordinary people. Why do I think so? Because I know that such struggle can be very effective. Passivity in the face of racism makes us morally responsible for what may take place in the future. Such passivity is also an insult to our national honors. I often think about this when I read our common Golden Rule: "Do to others as you would have them do to you."

    Ludwik
     
  2. sonofgloin

    sonofgloin New Member

    Yes Luddy, what can one do to combat prejudices that are passed down generationally from parent to child, particularly in pre WWII Eastern Europe....and again particularly the string of Catholic nations encompassing the Baltic States Ukraine and Poland.....and I will also throw in bits of the old Yugoslavia.

    This statement applies to all the Eastern European countries of the era, but we are talking Poland. I have always found it astounding that the generation of Poles that endured the NAZI occupation found time to hate and beat the Jews with one hand while the other was raised to deflect the NAZI’s whip.
    I am going to ramble philosophically here.
    There is a disjoint in that scenario that reflects on the nature of mankind, and in the case of the Jews it is a racist disjoint propagated by the early Catholic Church with possibly the longest and most unjust taunt in history.....”Christ Killers.”
    Jews should be given the accolade of “Christ Saviours.” The facts of the event are (if you believe in god) he sent his son to die for our sins and he chose his priests to instigate the event.
    We are easily manipulated...have you seen the blue eye brown eye thing, segregation and peer pressure changes perspectives:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeK759FF84s
     
  3. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    We mostly don't 'do' religion here, mate.
    For reasons which will doubtless become apparent...
     
    canuck and DPas like this.
  4. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Why single out Baltic nations, Catholic countries for the proliferation of anti-semitism, did it not exist elsewhere in Europe, for centuries?

    and so are unqualified, sweeping observations.

    Some detail for the sake of balance, top of the table for recognition of Righteous Gentile is ... Poland. Ukraine features high up too.
    http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/righteous/statistics.asp
    I don't think anyone should exclude themselves from criticising anything they disagree with, or see as unjust. To leave it to others and only to focus on one side, as some point of principle, seems more than odd to me, the very passivity you speak of.

    You've found some bile on the internet, I'm sure if you look again you'll find the voices you want to hear as well. Extremists always seem to get more attention, bit ironic cos that's what they crave.
     
    DPas likes this.
  5. TriciaF

    TriciaF Junior Member

    Part of dbf's post:
    "Some detail for the sake of balance, top of the table for recognition of Righteous Gentile is ... Poland. Ukraine features high up too."
    No disagreement with your main point, dbf, but to be fair the large numbers from Poland and the Ukraine could be because that's where the majority of the Jews were living at the time. And they were mostly poor, so they couldn't afford to escape.
    In Europe, France wasn't far behind Germany in numbers of Jews, and 75% of french Jews survived the war. They couldn't have done that without much tacit support.
    And the majority of German Jews escaped prewar or early days because the weren't poor.
     
  6. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    It's to balance a generalism about the countries picked out for special attention, that is all. As ever we could argue till the cows come home about the stats... one person for instance could have helped/saved 100s.
     
  7. TriciaF

    TriciaF Junior Member

    I've just googled "Jews in Europe post WW2" and was shocked to see two links quite high up which are obviously supporters of Davis Icke's views - can anything be done to have them erased?
     
  8. snailer

    snailer Country Member

    Erase pages on the internet that are contrary to your own views? how very nouveau fascist.
     
  9. TriciaF

    TriciaF Junior Member

    Well that's me snailer, a nouveau fascist.
    The point is, they're inciting hatred, and that's what this thread is about.
     
    Roxy likes this.
  10. Sussex by the Sea

    Sussex by the Sea Senior Member

    Politics and the military do not mix!
     
  11. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    It's a pity that the original poster has not returned to the forum since starting this thread. The equivalent in my eyes of chucking in a grenade and leaving someone else to do the mopping up.
     
  12. snailer

    snailer Country Member

    Fair enough, but to me it's the 21st Century equivalent of book burning.

    As for inciting hatred that covers pretty much all religions and politicians too doesn't it?
     
    dbf likes this.
  13. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    He never does old Ludwig.
    Comes on here starts a thread & never continues with it.
     
    dbf likes this.
  14. sonofgloin

    sonofgloin New Member

    DBF,you have a point about collective responsibility, yes pograms against Jews have taken place in "every" European nation over the past 1500 years.....but there is no doubt that the nations I mentioned had a further role in the 1941 to 1945 events than "other" European nations.

    Concentration camp guards and the escorts that accompanied the trains were almost exclusively from the Ukraine and Baltic States.....You must ask why not any other occupied European country, and two of the prime "conscience clearing" validations that this generation of men used to justify themselves to themselves were "nationalism" and "Christ Killers"....the poor Jews were never considered as Latvians, Lithuanians or Ukraines...they were Christ Killing Jews.......BDF, these peasants and towns people thought exactly that.


    BDF, read my post in "A member banned for showing proof of Holocaust in David Icke forum."
    I wasn't there but because of a family connection I have spoken to at least 50(no exageration)people who lived through it, and watched the genocide of the Jews.
     
  15. canuck

    canuck Token Colonial Patron

    That's the tricky part in all this. Where does expressing ones opinion, however stupid or misguided, cross over the line to becoming incitement? It all be becomes rather subjective and heavily weighted by the political power and influence of the "offended" group. Anyone who acts upon their particular hatred becomes subject to laws we have had on the books for many centuries now. I am more terrified of the ability of one group to silence another or many others. Ironically, I believe that many decent, law abiding Muslims must feel as the Jews did in the 1930's. Currently, hate laws don't seem to offer much support to that group.
    It is a short step to employ hate laws to stifle legitimate dissent or unpopular views. It is where political correctness becomes dangerous. I take my cue from my many friends who once lived behind the Iron Curtain. They despise any efforts to curtail free speech because they know all too well what it is to live where only one publicly accepted view is permitted.
     
    dbf likes this.
  16. TriciaF

    TriciaF Junior Member

    Big apology from me - I confused David Icke with David Irving, the Holocausr denier, who actually spent some time in prison. The links on Google referred to those who propagate Irving's views, so are borderline illegal.
    Sorry for muddying the waters.
     
  17. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Never is a strong word, and authority of proof would be required to use it. You may well have some points, but I'm afraid if you continue to use such finite terms when discussing entire nations of people, you've lost my attention.


    I agree and in terms of free speech there are indeed laws already in place to cover incitement, racism, etc etc. (Some politicians seem to be very keen in marketing any further curtailing of rights as gaps in the law. Of course some people do fall for this ploy, encouraged mainly by the age old politics of fear, and also due to ignorance of what is already extant.)

    What was suggested in the original post - so I think - was not censorship but engagement or countering ... gag a man and he still has his thoughts, debate with him and he might change them.
     
  18. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    Oh, they do, very much. ""War is simply the continuation of political intercourse with the addition of other means. We deliberately use the phrase "with the addition of other means" because we also want to make it clear that war in itself does not suspend political intercourse or change it into something entirely different. In essentials that intercourse continues, irrespective of the means it employs. The main lines along which military events progress, and to which they are restricted, are political lines that continue throughout the war into the subsequent peace."
     

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