Happy Valentine's day

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by Vintage Wargaming, Feb 14, 2016.

  1. Vintage Wargaming

    Vintage Wargaming Active Member

    Possibly not quite the right place but definitely the right day... tons of rivety loveliness

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    All pictures from Vickers Works Photograph Album, reproduced with permission of Beamish Museum
     
  2. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

  3. Vintage Wargaming

    Vintage Wargaming Active Member

    Great minds think alike...
    ... and fools seldom differ.

    I don't think these photographs have been publicly available before.
     
  4. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Cracking shots, VW.
    Particularly the last four. Pretty sure I've not seen that view of the 'SPG' 6pdr, and that one with the 25pdr (?) rings no bells at all. A squat Bishop... Both very 'Germanic' in look. Marder/Grille etc.
     
  5. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    Ah, the only kind of Valentine that doesn't make me say "bah, humbug." I do like the 25 pdr one, looks like a big improvement on the Bishop.
     
  6. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:
     
  7. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Vintage Wargaming.

    Do you have any photographs of the snake?
     
  8. Vintage Wargaming

    Vintage Wargaming Active Member

    Fraid not - these are all the Valentine pics. There are a few Harry Hopkins and Alecto ones. I wasn't sure what to do with the small number of WW2 pics - all the others are on my interwar tank development blog
     
  9. chrisgrove

    chrisgrove Senior Member

    The big problem with the Bishop was the restricted elevation of the gun, leading to restricted range. I cannot see that the squat version could be better in this respect!

    Chris
     
  10. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

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  11. Richard G

    Richard G Junior Member

    All Valentines should have been sent to Russia, basically it was a light tank at a time when light tanks had no business being on a battlefield. Particularly when their effectiveness against just about anything the Germans put up was zero so the job that they were supposed to do was not done. Which cost lives.

    If the Archer had been created at the start then credit would be due then. Why it took so many years to work that out is just one of those things we don't talk about old chap. Cheers :P
     
  12. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    In 1941-early 42 the Valentine was
    1) In volume production in both Britain and Canada, and easier to produce than the somewhat more combat effective Matilda
    2) Mechanically reliable, probably more so than any other contemporary British tank
    3) Fairly comparable in armor and gunpower (if not speed) to the Panzer III with the 37 and short 50mm, the most numerous German tank in service at the time
    4) Capable of carrying heavier armament, namely the 6 pdr due to appear shortly
    5) Popular with the Soviets, who wanted more

    Not ideal by any means and I'm no great admirer, but it had the above points in its favor. The Churchill was much better, but it had serious teething troubles and did not prove itself in the field until Tunisia. The Matilda was better protected than the Valentine, but it was less sound mechanically, the use of castings slowed down production, and the Matilda could not really be up-gunned. So I understand why the Valentine remained in production and service. Naturally you want something better, but until that something better is ready (improved Churchill) you go with what you've got.

    And effectiveness was not 'precisely zero.' The 23rd Armd Bde played quite an important role supporting the infantry at Second Alamein, and they did as good a job as they could given the limits of the equipment. (See Perret's The Valentine in North Africa.) The infantry of XXX Corps certainly preferred the Valentines to no tank support at all, which was what they often got prior to that. Also, it was not a light tank in the British definition.
     
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  13. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Drat, just looked through the Bovy pics from yesterday but no Valentine.
    This will have to do


    archer.JPG archer 1.JPG
     
    Seroster likes this.
  14. Seroster

    Seroster Canadian researcher Patron

    Hi all,

    Reviving this thread because these really are lovely, lovely pictures.

    Owen, I don't suppose you have a higher resolution image of the Archer interior? How did you get that vantage point?

    The Tank Museum has one or two of these, such as the Valentine modified to carry a 6-pounder AT gun with gunshield - it appears with that credit in the 2nd "Armor PhotoHistory" about the Valentine by Dick Taylor. (Well worth getting if you feel inclined)
     
  15. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I can't remember if there was something to stand on or whether it was just me being really tall with long arms . :)
    edit:Actually I think my short Mrs took it from a viewing platform going by the other photos in the album.
     
  16. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron

    Ron Goldstein4 in front of Chieftan.jpg Did I hear "Valentine" ?

    Fond memories of my visit to the Latrun Tank museum in Israel with my late wife.
    vanentine Latrun Israel - Bing images
    Yes, I know this pic is not of a Valentine but it was one of their prized exhibits, would someone care to identify it ?
    Ron
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
  17. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    canuck and Owen like this.
  18. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Later model with the extra Stillbrew turret armour.

    Google results says it's a mk3 with stillbrew.
     
  19. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron

    Many thanks Gents !

    Ron
    (who's personal knowledge of tanks was regrettably limited to Shermans and turret-less Stuart Mk 3s)
     
  20. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    The two test types were both apparently returned to the UK.
    Can't find any specifics on that Latrun machine. Not in Rob Griffin's lists of survivor locations. Wonder what route it took to Yad La-Shiryon...
    Their website's all in Hebrew. Not easy to navigate.
     

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