Handwritten Codes on Casualty Records

Discussion in 'General' started by 7mark, Nov 17, 2016.

  1. 7mark

    7mark Active Member

    What does 581, 583, 584 etc mean?

    upload_2016-11-17_19-17-43.png
     
  2. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    i presume this is an extract from the casualty lists on FMP?

    The numbers refer to the original numbered casualty list in which the individuals appeared.

    My father appeared in 3 as his status changed. He was originally shown as Missing then Confirmed POW and 3 years later No Longer POW.

    Steve Y
     
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  3. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    Although this is the explanation that is also given on the National Archives site when redirecting you to the Find my Past Website it doesn't always follow.

    Amongst the first casualties of the Battle of Arnhem were the Glider Pilots Sgt R A Fraser and S/Sgt L J Gardner who were killed on 17th September 1944, along with a number of members of 9th Field Company, Royal Engineers, when their glider crashed at Double Hills, Somerset, shortly after take off for Arnhem. First notification of their deaths appear shortly after the accident in Casualty list 1560 yet they both have the number 732 written alongside their names.
    That number would appear to relate to other ranks casualties reported in the period 16 January to 4 February 1942. If you search Find my Past you would therefore expect to find an earlier reference to Fraser or Gardner on the list 732 - their names do not appear on that list!!

    John
     
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  4. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    I've been doing a bit more digging on these Casualty Lists and the previous list number does occasionally appear but it is not the handwritten notation. If you look at the top of the attached list, which relates to the Forsyth (4461007) on the initially posted list, you will see the column heading for the previous list reference.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. 7mark

    7mark Active Member

    The soldier i'm looking at is Thomas Gurney, he was also wounded in Normandy, heres that casualty list, if it is referring to the casualty list does that mean they were all wounded together or is it from the clearance station

    upload_2016-11-18_22-33-21.png
     
  6. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

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    Just a general question, the codes handwritten in the copy page above - does anyone have a complete set or know where there is an index to them - in other posts I've seen numbers in the 600 + range.

    I assume its a code to the type of injury they received or something like that


    Does the information associated with the database on FMP provide any further details??

    TD
     
  7. Jedburgh22

    Jedburgh22 Very Senior Member

    Possibly relating to the incident report where the injuries occured
     
  8. klambie

    klambie Senior Member

    The reference to the original casualty list on which they appeared?
     
  9. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    No that appears in the right hand column under "Previous List No"
     
  10. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

  11. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hmmmmm - good bedtime reading that - might leave until tonight

    Thanks dbf

    TD
     
  12. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    This is an explanation on FMP but not sure that it relates to the 3 figure number you are referring to. The top one on your example (Garbett), is only on one list that I can find.

    "You may have annotations written next to your ancestor’s name. The letter ‘L’ or ‘CL’ and a number or a number on its own refers to another casualty list. This is likely to be when someone who was missing has now been reported as a prisoner or someone who was wounded reported now as having died. The first number in these references will relate to the Casualty List number, found at the start of each daily casualty list. If there is a second number to this code (example: CL 1015/12), this will be the specific page that the previous or subsequent entry can be found. Use the previous/next buttons to move through the documents to view other list numbers."
     
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  13. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Thanks Tony

    Another example rec'd
    Casualty list (1).jpg

    TD
     
  14. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    The first Casualty List that these handwritten numbers appear in is in the second batch, WO417/12, covering lists 201 – 226. They do not appear in the first batch, WO417/11, covering lists 1 – 200.

    Perhaps the attached gives a clue. On the rhs there is a note ‘Published in list No. x’. In the case of Goodchild he doesn't appear in List 10 nor do Luke and Payton appear in list No.5 so it must relate to some other listing.
    Casualty list (1).jpg
     
  15. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    As an aside - List No 1.
    Casualty List 1a.jpg Casualty List 1b.jpg Casualty List 1c.jpg
     
  16. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Again as an aside - I never knew:

    1. There was a 'Stevedore Battalion' in the Royal Engineers
    2. Militiaman was a term used in WW2 (Essex Regt R L C Thredder)


    If you use Gilliver as an example it states he was shown on Casualty List 200 and yet he has a handwritten 6 alongside his name so they can't be casualty list numbers - can they?? - especially as the page is headed Casualty List 202

    TD
     
  17. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    I wonder whether these pencil annotations might refer to Red Cross lists providing information about POWs. They cannot refer to Unit notifications as the same number often refers to men from a variety of different units. I don't recall ever seeing them on lists of men first posted as "Missing" but only when this was being updated to show " Now a POW" or "KIA/Died of Wounds" - the sort of information that was being provided through Red Cross channels of communication
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  18. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Could it refer to lists sent to the Press for publication?
    Tim
     
  19. Alex1975uk

    Alex1975uk Well-Known Member

    hi guys,
    I’m certain this has been asked before but I can’t find anything to answer this:
    On a casualty form/record, what are the hand written numbers referring to?

    Many thanks,
    Alex
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

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