Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by 7mark, Nov 17, 2016.
What does 581, 583, 584 etc mean?
i presume this is an extract from the casualty lists on FMP?
The numbers refer to the original numbered casualty list in which the individuals appeared.
My father appeared in 3 as his status changed. He was originally shown as Missing then Confirmed POW and 3 years later No Longer POW.
Although this is the explanation that is also given on the National Archives site when redirecting you to the Find my Past Website it doesn't always follow.
Amongst the first casualties of the Battle of Arnhem were the Glider Pilots Sgt R A Fraser and S/Sgt L J Gardner who were killed on 17th September 1944, along with a number of members of 9th Field Company, Royal Engineers, when their glider crashed at Double Hills, Somerset, shortly after take off for Arnhem. First notification of their deaths appear shortly after the accident in Casualty list 1560 yet they both have the number 732 written alongside their names.
That number would appear to relate to other ranks casualties reported in the period 16 January to 4 February 1942. If you search Find my Past you would therefore expect to find an earlier reference to Fraser or Gardner on the list 732 - their names do not appear on that list!!
I've been doing a bit more digging on these Casualty Lists and the previous list number does occasionally appear but it is not the handwritten notation. If you look at the top of the attached list, which relates to the Forsyth (4461007) on the initially posted list, you will see the column heading for the previous list reference.
The soldier i'm looking at is Thomas Gurney, he was also wounded in Normandy, heres that casualty list, if it is referring to the casualty list does that mean they were all wounded together or is it from the clearance station
Just a general question, the codes handwritten in the copy page above - does anyone have a complete set or know where there is an index to them - in other posts I've seen numbers in the 600 + range.
I assume its a code to the type of injury they received or something like that
Does the information associated with the database on FMP provide any further details??
Possibly relating to the incident report where the injuries occured
The reference to the original casualty list on which they appeared?
No that appears in the right hand column under "Previous List No"
The answer might lie somewhere in this linked thread
General procedure for dealing with Casualties in War, 1939
Hmmmmm - good bedtime reading that - might leave until tonight
This is an explanation on FMP but not sure that it relates to the 3 figure number you are referring to. The top one on your example (Garbett), is only on one list that I can find.
"You may have annotations written next to your ancestor’s name. The letter ‘L’ or ‘CL’ and a number or a number on its own refers to another casualty list. This is likely to be when someone who was missing has now been reported as a prisoner or someone who was wounded reported now as having died. The first number in these references will relate to the Casualty List number, found at the start of each daily casualty list. If there is a second number to this code (example: CL 1015/12), this will be the specific page that the previous or subsequent entry can be found. Use the previous/next buttons to move through the documents to view other list numbers."
Another example rec'd
The first Casualty List that these handwritten numbers appear in is in the second batch, WO417/12, covering lists 201 – 226. They do not appear in the first batch, WO417/11, covering lists 1 – 200.
Perhaps the attached gives a clue. On the rhs there is a note ‘Published in list No. x’. In the case of Goodchild he doesn't appear in List 10 nor do Luke and Payton appear in list No.5 so it must relate to some other listing.
As an aside - List No 1.
Again as an aside - I never knew:
1. There was a 'Stevedore Battalion' in the Royal Engineers
2. Militiaman was a term used in WW2 (Essex Regt R L C Thredder)
If you use Gilliver as an example it states he was shown on Casualty List 200 and yet he has a handwritten 6 alongside his name so they can't be casualty list numbers - can they?? - especially as the page is headed Casualty List 202
I wonder whether these pencil annotations might refer to Red Cross lists providing information about POWs. They cannot refer to Unit notifications as the same number often refers to men from a variety of different units. I don't recall ever seeing them on lists of men first posted as "Missing" but only when this was being updated to show " Now a POW" or "KIA/Died of Wounds" - the sort of information that was being provided through Red Cross channels of communication
Could it refer to lists sent to the Press for publication?
Any idea what the numbers are - written in freehand and in ink, between the soldier's Regimental Number and his name?
The numbers ranges between 630-635.
Any help would be appreciated.
I wonder whether they refer to current locations:
a) Died of wounds don't have one.
b) The numbers are not exclusive as multiple soldiers have the same codes.
Separate names with a comma.