Guidance where to start please !! KOYLI Italy

Discussion in 'British Army Units - Others' started by rosie6, May 29, 2012.

  1. rosie6

    rosie6 Junior Member

    Hi Everyone

    I found this great group online and hope you can help me please. :)

    I am researching my uncle George Walshaw Hydes from Barnsley in Yorkshire.He was a Private in the KOYLI and killed on the 19th of January 1944, I believe it was at the Garigliano Crossing, he is buried in Minturno and we have visited him there. My Mother his sister always used to say he died at the Batlle of Anzio, but I can see from the dates that cannot be so.

    So, firstly does anyone have any war diaries covering this date please ?

    He enlisted on the 15th of March 1940 and according to his Army records which I am having difficulties deciphering he was "home from 15/3/40 to 17/6/43 - 3 yrs and 95 days. Although on his records it has the followiing information

    KOYLI 15/3/40 Enlisted
    5O or maybe QHB posted 13/6/40
    2/4th posted 25/6/40
    ITC posted 13/8/41 (amended d/o 12/4/41)
    ITC no 6 (this could also apply to one above not clear which line it pertains to) posted Private 14/8/41

    Underneath these it says: AFB 10 4/93 (something unreadable) 2/2/44
    ITC posted 15/8/41
    Posted 6 ITC 14/8/41
    30th - 21/11/41
    Re-Designated 6th 29/9/42
    Draft RNWFF 17 then 6_43V
    LO19RTDX - 29/6/43 IV 8th Army 12/4/43
    1st 21/7/43
    North Africa 18/6/43 - 19/1/44 = 216 days
    O2E BNAF

    then it looks like the word "Gas/1416 smthg else. then

    26.1.44 Killed in Action 19th January 1944. Italy:(

    there are a few other notes but I cannot read them

    So who can help decipher this lot please. i am sure they mean something to someone !!!:mellow:

    I am sure I should be in a group if so please point me in the right direction.

    When we visited my Uncle at Minturno we went to have a drink and loo stop at a hotel next door . The owners asked us if we were visiting the cemetery (they spoke good English) I told them we were visiting my uncle and no one had visited before. It was the 50th anniversary. They went away and came back with 2 plants for us to place on the grave to give thanks to my Uncle. Amazing and very touching.

    Looking forward to hearing from anyone who can help


  2. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    Hi Rosemary - I was at Minturno last week (see below). It is looking as amazing as ever, as all the cemeteries are.

    He was 1st Bn KOYLI when he died and by chance I should be getting a copy of their War Diary this week. Will post the details for January 1944 when I have them.

  3. rosie6

    rosie6 Junior Member

    Wow !! How wonderful thanks !! The black and white photo I have of my uncles grave that was sent to my Grandparents I took it to Minturno when we went and was amazed how the view was identical, (until you looked at the road of course !! - it is a little spaghetti junction in one area !!)

    We had a brilliant blue sky when we went , so got some fabulous photos.There was a man at the entrance who was dumb, taking me to the visitors book to find who I wanted to see. I always remember him. Anyway thanks for the answer and look forward to hearing from you

    Take Care

  4. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Rosie / Paul

    I have noted that there was a battalion of the KOYLI - the 2/4th in the 46h Inf Division 128 th Bde which he might very well have been a member of that Division - looks like he was a reinforcement as his record dates are a bit off as 46h joined US 5th Army on 9/9/43 for the invasion at Salerno having landed at Algiers in march '43 ....a scan of the records would be more helpful as the WO instructions appear to be mixed up with movements

  5. rosie6

    rosie6 Junior Member

    Yes I wondered abput the dates Tom, they don't quite tie up completely with the history sent me by the KOYLI museum. But it seems clear that at some point that he was BNAF. Will try to scan tommorow. Will see what I can do.!!
    Thanks Tom
  6. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member


    19 Jan 44 was the date of the 46 Infantry Division attack on Sant Ambrogio just to the south of Monte Cassino. If he was serving in 46 Infantry Division as opposed to 1 KOYLI in 5 Infantry Division then Tom may well be right.

    Only one Brigade of 46 Infantry Division attacked Sant Ambrogio although I will see to check which one was committed.


  7. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    His CWGC entry says he was 1st Bn.

    Seems to be confirmed by:

    1st 21/7/43
    North Africa 18/6/43 - 19/1/44 = 216 days
    Owen likes this.
  8. rosie6

    rosie6 Junior Member

    Thanks everone !! 1st it is then !
  9. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Hi Rosie and welcome to the forum

    If you want any of the other diaries covering his service just click the link below for more details and give me a shout.

    Good luck

    Ps For the record CWGC says he was 1st Battalion too -its always a good place to check ;)

    CWGC - Casualty Details :poppy:
  10. rosie6

    rosie6 Junior Member

    Hi Drew

    Thanks so much. You guys have all been so really welcoming and really helpful.

    Thanks so much !! Good job you are not WW1 as well. We have a fighter pilot ACE in the family !!

    i shall be having a good link at the link tommorow.
  11. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    We have a 'Pre WW2' Section ;)
  12. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Rosie / Paul

    Bit confused here as I see no record of 1st batt KOYLI in 1st Div- but recognize that they did serve in the Torch(BNAF) landings of Nov '42- whereas 2/4th Batt. DID serve in 46th Div as the dates show that he died on 19th Jan / '43 - this was apparently the day they landed in Italy.....bit unlikely
    but 46th Div DID land at Salerno 9/Sep/ '43 - and fought through Naples/ Garigliano / Minturno and south of Cassino - so still looks like a reinforcement to 2/4th Batt

    1st Div landed on Anzio 20th/Jan/ 44 - again the day AFTER he died ....? so - lets have a look at the records please

    CWGC is playing up now that they have "improved " it

  13. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member


    I think the 1st above, referred to the 1st Bttn KOYLI within 15 Brigade in 5th British Infantry Div.

  14. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Richard -
    Missed the 1st batt on the Globetrotters AOB as being in 15th bde- they came up from Sicily with 1st Cdn and went to on relieve 5th US army at Salerno-then over to the Sangro - back to Garilgliano - not sure of dates - then finished up at Anzio- so it may be correct that he was with 5th Div ..But they never served in BNAF ..!

  15. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

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  16. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    that would clear up my confusion- thank you
  17. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    According to John Ellis, 1 KOYLI were fifteen days in the line during the Jan 1944 Garigliano assaults and suffered 174 killed, wounded and missing.

    Pretty grim stuff amongst a multitude of grimness.

  18. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    And that was just the beginning of the grimness....

  19. rosie6

    rosie6 Junior Member

    Good Morning

    I will shortly scan the records, my scanners not brilliant and of course the records are on A3 paper. Fingers crossed.

    On the day my uncle was killed my 10 year old cousin was in the cellar playing of our Grandads Hotel in Barnsley, when he became aware of Uncle George to his left, bits of him were missing, Harold wasn't scared and Uncle George told him that he wouldn't be coming back and that Harold had to be a good boy and look after everyone, then he just disappeared.
    Our Grandad came down to the cellar to get something when Harold casually told him what he had seen. This of course gave our Grandfather a bad turn.When the telegram arrived about his death, sure enough it was the day Harold had seen him January 19th 1944. He didn't realise the significance until he was much older,and at that stage thought he may have been killed by a mine. Although his wallet with photos was returned as personal effects.
  20. rosie6

    rosie6 Junior Member

    Well typically I am unable to load them at the mo. I spent ages attatching them and now I cannot post them !! I have emailed them to Frank de Planta so he can have a look as he has emailed me with help.

    So when I come back iwill have another go.


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