2665937 Guardsman Robert Edward SILMAN, 4 Bn Coldstream Guards: KIA 14/10/1944

Discussion in 'The Brigade of Guards' started by Skoyen89, Jul 2, 2018.

  1. Skoyen89

    Skoyen89 Senior Member

    I am trying to find a photo of Guardsman Robert (Bob) Silman who died in the fighting near Overloon on 14th October 1944. He was a close cousin of my father.
    I have a lot of detail about the events leading up to his death (CWGC, War Diaries, Accounts online from Bob Dare etc) but only a photo of him as a boy at the wedding of my grandfather.
    I do not believe that there are any surviving descendents of his parents, William Henry Silman and Rose (nee Honeyman) Silman of Bristol,


    Guardsman Robert Edward Silman | War Casualty Details 2081480 | CWGC

    Any thoughts on possible sources? What does the Tank Museum at Bovington hold in the way of records?

    Thanks for any help.

    Tony
     
  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi Tony

    His probate was paid to his mother Rose who is at that time noted as a widow so presume her husband had died as well

    He did not marry - I cannot find a record, so no children.

    He did have a brother Leonard Thomas
    England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1916-2007
    Name: Leonard T Silman
    Registration Date: 1920
    Registration district: Bristol
    Inferred County: Avon
    Re-registration Year: 1920
    Mother's Maiden Name: Honeyman
    Volume Number: 6a
    Page Number: 213

    England and Wales, Death Index, 2007-2015
    Name: Mr Leonard Thomas Silman
    Gender: Male
    Age: 88
    Birth Date: 1921
    Death Date: 23 Jun 2009
    Residence Place at Death: Teignmouth, Devon, England
    Postal Code District: Tq14

    But as yet have had no luck finding living relatives for him.

    He did marry around the time his brother was killed
    England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
    Name: Leonrd T Silman
    Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1944
    Registration district: Surrey North Eastern
    Inferred County: Surrey
    Spouse: Kathleen D Osborne
    Volume Number: 2a
    Page Number: 136

    There was a child
    England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1916-2007
    Name: Karen M Silman
    Registration Date: 1947
    Registration district: Bristol
    Inferred County: Avon
    Re-registration Year: 1947
    Mother's Maiden Name: Osborne
    Volume Number: 7b
    Page Number: 113

    I will continue to search to see if she had children, but another routs today that has worked in the past is to post something on Facebrook, as sometimes family members see things and pass the info on

    TD
     
  3. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Looks like he might have had a much older brother that I need to trace

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915
    Name: Ernest W Silman
    Mother's Maiden Name: Honeymoon (?Honeyman?)
    Registration Year: 1914
    Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
    Registration district: Bristol
    Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
    Inferred County: Gloucestershire
    Volume: 6a
    Page: 231

    TD
     
  4. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    1939 REGISTER TRANSCRIPTION
    Silman Household (3 People)
    2 Bethel Road, Bristol C.B., Gloucestershire, England
    NAME DOB OCCUPATION
    Rose Silman 06 Sep 1885 Office Cleaner [widow]
    Sorry, this record is officially closed.
    Sorry, this record is officially closed.

    1939 REGISTER TRANSCRIPTION
    Silman Household (4 People)
    179 Charlton Road , Bristol C.B., Gloucestershire, England
    NAME DOB OCCUPATION
    Ernest W Silman 11 Apr 1914 Dairy Roundsman
    Winifred D Rogers (Silman) 22 Aug 1912 Unpaid Domestic Duties
    Emma F Webber 20 Mar 1892 Unpaid Domestic Duties
    Albert H Webber 15 Jan 1924 Seeking Work Not Previously Employed
     
  5. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello Tony,

    Local Newspapers normally published a brief obit with photograph. Have you tried this source?

    Best,

    Steve.
     
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  6. DianeE

    DianeE Member

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  7. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Doubt Bovington will have anything on him as he wasn’t Tank Corps/RAC.

    His papers ought to be with RHQ CG although I’ve heard conflicting accounts of their transfer to MOD in Glasgow.

    Steve
     
  8. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Diane,
    Your ref appears to be to a P T Silmon not Silman.
    Tim
     
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  9. DianeE

    DianeE Member

    Oops apologies. Blame it on the bifocals.
    Diane
     
  10. Skoyen89

    Skoyen89 Senior Member

    Hi

    Many thanks to all of you for your input. My dad told me that Rob's brother Len was a fireman and he didn't think he had children. He thinks the brother Ernest had two daughters.

    The Coldstream Guards records is not a route I had thought of so thanks for that. My Dad is going to apply for his records from the MOD as well.

    I will see if I can find the Bristol newspapers online.

    There are IWM photos of the 4CG Churchill tanks in Overloon and Venray (and some taken a few months earlier in France). I wonder if the IWM Photography section will have other photos taken by the same photographer which might include the tank crews.

    I am off to Overloon later this week to visit his grave so appreciate your help filling in some of this family background.
     
  11. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
  12. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Well

    Looking at this marriage
    England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
    Name: Ernest W Silman
    Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1938
    Registration district: Kingswood
    Inferred County: Gloucestershire
    Spouse: Winifred D Webber
    Volume Number: 6a
    Page Number: 877
    I can find no offspring

    But then he seems to have married a second time
    Name: Ernest W Silman
    Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1949
    Registration district: Bristol
    Inferred County: Gloucestershire, Somerset
    Spouse: Audrey M J Wyatt
    Volume Number: 7b
    Page Number: 423

    but then I can't find any children that fit the criteria :banghead:

    Ernest William Silman
    1914–1963
    BIRTH ABT. JUN 1914 • Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
    DEATH 5 MAR 1963 • 19 Northumberland Road, Redland, Bristol, Gloucestershire, England

    TD
     
  13. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

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  14. Skoyen89

    Skoyen89 Senior Member

    Thanks Owen and Tricky Dicky.
     
  15. Skoyen89

    Skoyen89 Senior Member

    Hi everyone.

    Many thanks for the responses and apologies for not getting back sooner (medical crisis in the family meant this took a low priority).

    In the meantime I had a moving visit to the grave of Bob Silman in Overloon. I was able to plot where he died, I found some accounts of his death and the tank in which he was killed is in the museum at Overloon! It is amazing (and a touch lucky) that so much can be found in this case.

    Again, thanks.
     
  16. Roswitha Keizers

    Roswitha Keizers New Member

    Hi Tony,

    My name is Roswitha Keizers. I am living in Overloon, the Netherlands. Len and Kit Silman visited Robert Silman's grave regularly. My father adopted Robert's grave. That is the reason why I am still bringing flowers to the grave. Len and Kit were our dear friends. I visited them for the first time with one of my sisters in 1976. A rose on their graves, because 75 years ago it was D-day.
     

    Attached Files:

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  17. Roswitha Keizers

    Roswitha Keizers New Member

    Sorry Tony. I forgot to mention that Len was his brother and Kit was his sister in law. Roswitha.
     
  18. Skoyen89

    Skoyen89 Senior Member

    Hi Roswitha Many thanks for getting in touch and for looking after his grave. I am often amazed by how the Dutch people look after the graves of our lost boys....it really is lovely. I will tell.my father and send you my contact details so we can correspond.
    All the best
    Tony
     
  19. Roswitha Keizers

    Roswitha Keizers New Member

    Thank you very much Tony. I am looking forward to your father's message.

    We are glad - over here - that we could keep in touch with some of the ex-servicemen of WW2 or that we can look after these graves. Love from Roswitha.
     
  20. Roswitha Keizers

    Roswitha Keizers New Member

    Dear Tony, I never mentioned the fact that Robert's brother Len and his wife Kit had a daughter. If you want to contact her, please let me know. Love from Roswitha Keizers, Overloon Holland.
     
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