Have just come to the middle of March 45 with my Regt History book project, and the Old Man and Regiment are getting severely bombed and bashed up by " Me 262's " outside Nijmengen, lots of Cas, I thought that by this time the German Air Force was kaput ? but am not an Air-War man so don't have any facts on this. Cheers. Rob
I have seen some documentaries this year that have interview WW2 American vet fighter pilots and they described they sky in 1944-45 being filled with aircraft with black crosses on them. They were talking about Fw190's and Me109's though not 262's. I got the impression that the Germans were throwing everything up in large numbers when they could - Almost like a RAF BoB 'Big Wing' scenario. Andy
A few details relating to the Me 262 The Messerschmitt Me 262 is generally called 'the first jet fighter'; it is also popularly believed it would have made a much bigger and earlier impact on the war but for Hitler's personal insistence it be produced as a bomber. Neither is quite true. There are several other aircraft - the He 280, Bell P-59A and Meteor I - which have at least an equal claim to have been the first jet fighter; and the pacing item in the 262 programme was the engine, not any decision by Hitler, What is beyond dispute is that the 262 was a technical achievement of the greatest magnitude, and the only turbojet fighter to have any influence on the war. In August 1938 Whittle's turbojet was not something officials cared to be associated with, but in Germany Messerschmitt AG was entrusted with the design of a new fighter to use two of the axial turbojets then under development at BMW. By 1940 the Junkers Jumo 004 had overtaken the smaller BMW unit, but in the event the first Me 262 was ready far ahead of the engines and it was rebuilt to fly with a piston engine (Jumo 210) in the nose on 18 April 1941. On 25 March 1942 a hair-raising flight was made with this aircraft fitted with two BMW003 turbojets; these promptly failed, and the piston engine just managed to bring the machine back to a landing. But on 18 July 1942 test-pilot Wendel made a perfect flight in the third prototype, fitted with the Junkers engine, after discovering he had to touch the brakes to get the tail up. In April 1943 Adolf Galland flew the fourth prototype and soon reported that in his view all fighters except the Fw 190 should be terminated, the available capacity being used to build the 262, unofficially called Schwalbe (swallow). More fuel was needed, and this demanded a tricycle landing gear which was also desirable from the viewpoints of handling and ground erosion. On 2 November 1943 a special organization was formed to speed this potentially vital military aircraft, and on the same day Goering visited Messerschmitt and told him that all Hitler wanted to know was if it could carry bombs. There followed months of vacillation, Hitler flying into a rage at the slow progress and Junkers failing to make the engine reliable. The 004B engine was finally released for production in June 1944, but by this time the resources behind it, and the 262, were considerable. The first Me 262A-la fighter - to no small degree produced without Hitler's knowledge -was delivered to special test unit EKdo 262 in July 1944, by which time the first Meteors were with 616 Sqn, RAF. Unlike the British jet the 262 had an advanced airframe and offered a tremendous margin of performance over all other fighters (except the dangerous point-defence Me 163B Komet, which had a rocket). In contrast to the Bf 109G the 262 was a beautiful machine to fly, but many problems remained, including basic engine unreliability and short life, the near-impossibility of formation flying because of engine-handling limiXtations, and a slight aiming problem because of a tendency to yaw. The first jet in action is unrecorded but two F-5 Lightning’s and a PR Mosquito were claimed by EKdo 262 during July 1944, and on 25 July an RAF Mosquito crew managed to evade repeated firing passes. In August a detachment of KG 51 became operational with several of the A-2a bomber version, and on 28 August one of these was shot down by P-47s near Brussels. On 3 October the Kommando Nowotny was formed to operate the A-la, and though it achieved many successes it lost two aircraft to Lt Urban L. Drew's P-51 on 7 October, and Nowotny himself was killed a month later. Late in 1944 JG 7 scored many kills, but also suffered many' losses, and though the four big-calibre guns had immense firepower their low muzzle velocity and constant jamming were grave drawbacks. There were several special weapon fits, listed in the data, and about half the aircraft delivered were A-2a Sturmvogels, which failed to cause the predicted havoc to Allied surface targets. A handful of interim night-fighter 262B-la/Uls saw service in 1945. [FONT="] [/FONT]
Rob, I may be wrong he regarding peoples perceptions, but I always get the impression because the Luftwaffe was relatively quiet on D-Day (A lot always seems to be made of that) that it stayed that way for the rest of the war. I'm sure Peter can confirm that the Jagdgeshwader's were very active with figures of Bomber Command losses let alone the USAF and USAAF. I think quite a few Dakota's were shot down during OMG too. Andy
Andy. I think your probably right in that. The Diaries of the Regt + AGRA's constantly refer to coming under attack by the Luftwaffe and (USAF!!!!) right through the War, when the general perception was that they were no where to be seen after D-Day. Rob
Andy. constantly refer to coming under attack by the Luftwaffe and (USA!!!!) Nothing new there mate even experienced it myself !
The ME-262 dis not use high grade aviation fuel and as a result may not have been as "grounded" as the Luftwaffe's piston engined aircraft.
to answer: in March of 45 the unit KG (J) 54 besides providing some defense against US heavy bombers was still attacking ground targets - columns of MT and troops and this is most likely the unit that was faced. Peter C. just a little correction JG 7 did not become operational till decmber of 44. there largest success"s if you will was in March-April of 45 but in the end result they were hammered in the air, many US escort pilots wanted to chalk up a jet to their victory tallies. I am putting together a book on the US P-51 units battling the Me 262 units in the near future with many first person US veteran accounts. v/r E ~
The Luftwaffe suffered from a lack of fuel from the concentrated raids by the USAAF and RAF on the synthetic oil plants from late spring 1944.By July 1944,every plant had been bombed, some worse than others.Before these concentrated raids,output had been 316.000 tons per month,falling to 107.000 tons per month by June and 17.000 tons by September. These figures included 175.000 tons of aviation fuel in April 1944,to 30.000 tons in July and down to 5000 ton in December 1944.As the Germans under the "oil production czar" Edmund Geilenberg rebuilt the plants, so the bombers returned.The most important plant was at Leuna which was bombed a total of 22 occasions with 18.000 tons of bombs in the final year of the war and through damage recovery still maintained an output of 15% by the end of the war. Due to the lack of aviation fuel, the Luftwaffe were restricted in the flying hours that they could afford for ME 262 trainee pilots and suffered from the inability to perform operational front line flying.By February and March 1945 the Germans felt the fuel shortage on the Eastern Front so much that they had 1200 tanks overrun through lack of fuel in the Baranov bridgehead on the Vistula. The ME 262 was not introduced without organisational mishaps due to Hitler's interference that it should be commissioned as a fighter bomber.It has been said that the Luftwaffe had a delay of 6 months in equipping its squadrons with the aircraft as a fighter due to Hitler's invovement in the production planning. The other point is that the Me 262 engines were restricted to mild steel in for their "hot end" construction which meant that they required engine changes every 15 flying hours which was quite a task in the field as airfield and aircraft depots were subject to priority targetting by the Allied Air Forces.While their flying performance could outstrip Allied aircraft, Allied aircraft had the advantage of numerical supremacy which they exploited by continual patrols against known ME 262 airfields to destroy the enemy in their weakest mode of taking off and landing. History will record that the Luftwaffe,for many reasons, became increasingly ineffective from June 1944.For instance on D Day,the Luftwaffe could only muster 80 aircraft for operations against Allied forces in Normandy.
Like a lot of people, I am no way an airforce buff, but having read many Arnhem publications, it is clear that the Luftwae, still had a presence in the area, including the airfield at deleen (Sp?) North Holland wasnt liberated until 1945 so it is not surprising that the Germans still had the capability to launch air raids.
von P the most effective Me 262 ground attacks were against the Soviet armored columns using Panzerschreck altered heads for the R4M rockets during March-April of 45. due to the terrible record keeping during the last days not much is known especially what has been printed in the past, the information evidently is still concealed in eastern Germany.
Rob, when I get a chance, i'll look through the various books relating to the liberation of Holland to see how much the Lutwaffe is reffered to P
you won't find much as to the amount of LW fighters present in the north. during mid-January 1945 the bulk of more than 3/4r's of the LW day fighter force were sent to the Ost front for the final battles for Berlin. in fact there was JG 26 and the Bf 109G/K gruppen of JG 27. JG 2 was in central Germany, JG 7's jets were near Hamburg and of course by Berlin. JG 53 was in Bavaria. JG 300 and JG 301 were near and around Berlin to the north and west, south at Finsterwalde. LW night fighter units were sacattered far and wide over Germany
The Luftwaffe suffered from a lack of fuel from the concentrated raids by the USAAF and RAF on the synthetic oil plants from late spring 1944.By July 1944,every plant had been bombed, some worse than others.Before these concentrated raids,output had been 316.000 tons per month,falling to 107.000 tons per month by June and 17.000 tons by September. These figures included 175.000 tons of aviation fuel in April 1944,to 30.000 tons in July and down to 5000 ton in December 1944.As the Germans under the "oil production czar" Edmund Geilenberg rebuilt the plants, so the bombers returned.The most important plant was at Leuna which was bombed a total of 22 occasions with 18.000 tons of bombs in the final year of the war and through damage recovery still maintained an output of 15% by the end of the war. Due to the lack of aviation fuel, the Luftwaffe were restricted in the flying hours that they could afford for ME 262 trainee pilots and suffered from the inability to perform operational front line flying.By February and March 1945 the Germans felt the fuel shortage on the Eastern Front so much that they had 1200 tanks overrun through lack of fuel in the Baranov bridgehead on the Vistula There was actually quite a lot of synthetic jet few being produced in Germany in March and April '45; Heinrich Fey when debriefed after his defection gave the Americans details of IIRC SIX factories alone that HE knew of...which subsequently received visits based on his info But part of the problem for Galland was that the Western Allies overflying most of Germany by then were making ground transport alomost impossible. Movement of fuel, new complete engines and spares around the country was almost impossible...and crippling given the engine failure rate on the Me262. Units were having to send their own trucks to bring back engines by night etc. In the end, Galland moved his units further and further east and south towards Munich....nearer and nearer Messerschmitt's production facilities for spares and aircraft.
what units south Phylo ? only JV 44 operated from the south, JG 7 stayed north in April and May of 45 the wasted units from the Ost front landed within the wipped Reich wherver they could. JG 7 remained independent of Gallands and the sub-authority figures of the last-gasp LW. But so did many of the NJG's. certainly the Me 262A and B Kommando of K. Welter did to the end.
From Harvey and Foreman's Me-262 War Diaries. Some notes on the fuel shoratges which bedeveiled all German efforts in late 44 and throughour 1945. The book covers combat use of the 262 - it confirms Erich's view on the scattered use of fighter bomber raids in the west. Also some notes on the R4M rocket. The authors mentions the shooting down of a KG51(J) 262 near Nijmegen on 2/3/45 but the bulk of this units activity in March is recorded as being at the Remagen Bridgehead.
James These are the exact dates (Mar 16-18) that the Regt and other Allied units on the West Bank of the Rhine were being bombed + straffed by the 262's. Thank you all for the info. Cheers Rob
Rob , I looked in the book In have unfortunately what is recorded for those dates relates to actions against USAF formations. Sorry to be of so little help.
