Hello, I'm looking for information about my great grandfather Henry Orme. The only thing that I can find is his cemetery page at CWGC. The only other thing I can remember is that my grandad said he died in a training exercise that involved climbing a volcano, I think? Any information or help will be greatly appreciated. Rank: Guardsman Service No: 3769016 Date of Death: 27/02/1945 Age: 28 Regiment/Service: Scots Guards 3rd Bn. Grave Reference: IV. E. 16. Cemetery: Naples War Cemetery (I don't have any money so I can't look at records that you need to buy...) Thanks.
Hello and welcome to the forum I'm afraid I can't add very much, other than the Roll of Honour in the SG Regtl History lists your grandfather not as 3rd Bn., but as 1st Bn which by then (Feb '45) were reorganised at Spoleto as part of the 24th Guards Brigade with the 2nd Coldstream and 1st Buffs. The 3rd were at that time in North West Europe, a Tank battalion equipped with Churchill tanks http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/31187-account-3rd-tank-bn-scots-guards-jul-1944-may-1945/ So, that battalion designation is probably an error by CWGC. The war diary would be an alternative to getting copy records, but there is no guarantee that there will be any details in it either. Given the confusion about battalion, it's further complicated. I don't have the war diary for the 1st Scots Guards so can't unfortunately check for you any dates around your grandfather's death. However, these are the details, if you can get a copy or go to Kew yourself http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C964391 It might also be possible that he was in a holding unit at that time: meaning he was in reserve as a reinforcement. These units still carried out training. As the SG Roll of honour doesn't give any further information, there is no way of confirming for you either if he died or wounds/injuries sustained on an earlier date, or if he was killed in an accident on that date. Without the copy service record it can only be conjecture.
Well, I think you might know of a volcano near Naples!! Name: Henry Orme. Given Initials: H. Rank: Guardsman. Death Date: 27 Feb 1945 Number: 3769016. Birth Place: Liverpool. Residence: Liverpool. Branch at Enlistment: Foot Guards Theatre of War: Italy. Regiment at Death: Scots Guards. Branch at Death: Foot Guards Name: Henry Orme. Mother's Maiden Surname: Sharratt. Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1916 Registration District: West Derby, Lancashire. Volume: 8b. Page: 648 I think his Service Number is part of a batch issued to The Kings Liverpool Regiment some time in 1943 at the latest. It looks as if he married in 1940. Name: Henry S Orme. Spouse Surname: Webster. Date of Registration Apr-May-Jun 1940. Registration district: Preston, Lancashire. Volume: 8e. Page: 1427 (I'm guessing that if it is him, the "S" might be for Sharratt) The Scots Guards might indicate some Scottish ancestry or that he was a tall chap! His was the only 1st or 3rd Bn Scots Guards death that day, so an accident on Vesuvius could be entirely possible. EDIT: Just to mention you could apply for his Service Records, although that does cost £30 if you can find that!
Kevin's right and I guarantee it will be the best £30 you will have ever spent (but that's for the future). A pal of mind is just about to start researching his father's service, who was also Scots Guards, but also had some time in the Black Watch. If I discover that he needs to purchase the Scots Guards diaries that covers the time frame you are interested in, I'm sure he would have no problem sharing them with you (and hopefully save you a few £'s). Do a general search for Scots Guards on Google and also use the search engine here. There's always useful bits of info floating about. I'm also finding my public library useful in obtaining some of those rare military books that I would find too expensive to purchase myself otherwise My friends research is at an early stage though and he hasn't even filled out the forms to get a hold of the service record so it could be sometime yet before we can determine how long his father was with the Scots Guards versus the Black Watch (can be up to a year to get the service record sent to you by the way). His father's service number does fall within the service numbers allocated to the Scots Guards. My hunch is he started out with the S.G. and then went on to serve with the B.W. My pal's brother has all the medals and paperwork so I'm waiting to see copies of that before posting anything here. I'll certainly let you know if his research dates coincide with your own. Well, all the best from one who certainly knows what it's like to be skint! Cheers - Maria
A kind chap… As Kevin points out, there is a Volcano near Naples called Vesuvius and lots os people went running up and down there on training exercises so that would make sense that he was in a training ( Holding) Battalion of the SG as the fighting Battalion was miles away at Spoleto and by that time( Feb '45) there were too Many cemeteries between Spoleto and Naples to transport just one casualty all the way back to Naples and by passing Cassino with it's 4000 graves and equal amounts of names on the columns… Cheers
