Great Grandad Prisoner of War in Japan

Discussion in 'Prisoners of War' started by Emma Squibb, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. Emma Squibb

    Emma Squibb Well-Known Member

    :DLI wonder if her father Charles Lambourne is William Lambourne seniors brother, can u find that out on there lol? I do have this ancestory membership but I’m not as good at finding these things :D
     
  2. Emma Squibb

    Emma Squibb Well-Known Member

    I also noticed his mum and dads ages don’t match up from their marriage certificate to the census. They’ve gone from being 6 years different in age to the same age lol.
     

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  3. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Emma - the other option is that Charles Lambourne (b 1838 - 1841) is Williams Uncle i.e. the brother to William (b 1829 father of William), so that could make Mary a cousin to William

    TD
     
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  4. Emma Squibb

    Emma Squibb Well-Known Member

    Yeah I think it is. I’ve just checked the census and Charles has a brother called William! And the ages look about right! I’m just making a family tree at the moment on ancestory so I can see it written out lol
     
  5. Emma Squibb

    Emma Squibb Well-Known Member

    Not good news on the dog tags I’m afraid. The Osaka centre were happy for us to have 1 of the Tags but their upper organisation the Osaka Prefecture have said no :( The centre were very sorry. They sent me a photo of the tag.
    Taeko who has been helping me is going to lay the crosses and some flowers from herself when they arrive in a day or 2 which is so amazing so very grateful for that.

    The wargraves commission are also going to amend the age on his grave. It will take a while due to their schedule but it’s on their list to do.
     

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  6. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    That is a shame Emma. However, you have learned so much about William, probably more than almost anyone I have come across, especially in regards to those held by the Japanese in WW2. The very fact that you have seen a photograph of the unusual dog tag attributed to William is something quite special in itself. I know that my family would love to see absolutely anything in relation to my own grandfather and his time in Japanese hands. Well done in what you have achieved so far.

    Steve
     
  7. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Hello again
    Quite spooky when I look back at my earlier post
    Now the explanation for his Death Date and text in English becomes clear, done by the Americans to record the various caskets from Japanese cremations.
    The similarity to dog tags, as an ID means, is now also obvious. They were discarded, once the caskets had "proper" markers, and then left at the Castle, so would only have been associated with William in the time of the Camp liberation and the transfer of the remains. Nonetheless, it would have been a tangible link and perhaps the senior management were unaware of the "personal" reasons for the request. If it means a way to closure, as we now say, then perhaps they would allow a plaster cast to be made for you? It won't be quite the same, but "something" nonetheless.

    You certainly have brought William to the closest of "back to life" and I'm pleased with the journey to get you there.
     
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  8. Emma Squibb

    Emma Squibb Well-Known Member

    That’s not a bad idea with the plaster cast. It is sad that it would mean so much to us and especially as there are 2.
    The man who runs the Osaka centre wanted us to have it because of how much it means and I’m sure he would have passed this on to his upper authority. From what I can tell the Osaka Prefecture is like a local government who are the ones who have said no.
    I wonder if they would reconsider if we were to offer payment for it...

    Thank you. I really appreciate that :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
  9. Emma Squibb

    Emma Squibb Well-Known Member

    Well you know me, I don’t like to give up. I thought I’d try 1 more thing, I’ve gone back to the Embassy (who passed my details on originally to the lady Taeko from pow research who has been helping me)

    I just thought I’d see if there was anything they could do to convince them. As they are the embassy they may be in a more powerful position to help. I’m sure it won’t affect their decision but at least I would have tried everything!
     
  10. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    This may be the heck of a cheek as I have no knowledge of your personal circumstances, so my apologies in advance, but as I mentioned before, this year will be the 75th anniversary of Williams death. Would you be intending to visit in person, as perhaps a "face to face" with Embassy and whatever TV etc publicity could be arranged, maybe they'd relent.

    I don't want you to feel under duress, just that it might be a polite way for the Japanese to avoid losing face and in some small way heal old wounds.
    No problem if it can't be done, just a suggestion.
     
  11. Emma Squibb

    Emma Squibb Well-Known Member

    It’s a great idea and I love the idea of it although with having 2 young children (5 and 3) I unfortunately wouldn’t be able to visit in the near future. Although saying that my Mum is intending to visit Japan next year and touring the country, while visiting Yokohama Cemetary in the process. I can speak with her although think it is a planned tour by a company so not sure if it would allow. Maybe something for myself in the future though, I’m ‘only’ 32 so plenty of time to get over there!

    I did actually find a contact email for the Osaka Prefecture who are the ones who said no and explained the importance of it and said I’d be happy to share a picture of William and some info on him and just mentioned a few times how it would be a direct connection to him for my Nan who’s never got to go to Japan.

    I also asked their reasoning behind their saying no.

    I will see if or what they come back with...

    Thanks :)
     
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  12. BarbaraWT

    BarbaraWT Member

    Excuses aside, I don’t understand why the Japanese aren’t deeply ashamed of their cruelty in WW2.
     
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  13. Emma Squibb

    Emma Squibb Well-Known Member

    They made it!
    The flowers are from Taeko who laid them, what an amazing lady to do this for us.
     

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  14. Emma Squibb

    Emma Squibb Well-Known Member

    Couple more pictures she took
     

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  15. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    What is also impressive is that all the stones had been cleaned of the fairly deep snow, not just from William's for the photo.
    Well done CWGC staff there.
     
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  16. Emma Squibb

    Emma Squibb Well-Known Member

    We’ve decided to write a letter to the Osaka Prefecture to see if they’ll reconsider their decision, hoping them hearing straight from the family might help. Not sure they will budge but anyone have any tips on how I can convince them otherwise...?
     

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  17. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Attempt to write in Japanese (well, do it in English then run it through a translator app and then send that with your English text to either the British Embassy or someone who can write Japanese the Japanese way.
    Even making the attempt may impress enough, even if the translation is laughable, at least you've tried..
    Just writing in English might seem arrogant, I don't know what offends Japanese, but trying their own languages helps in many places round the world..
     
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  18. Emma Squibb

    Emma Squibb Well-Known Member

    Hi all, hope you’re all well.
    No real update with the dog tag, the embassy are seeing what they can do their end, they’ve been very helpful so far so am awaiting to hear from them and the next stage will be writing this letter to the Osaka prefecture if the embassy can’t get anywhere.

    I received Williams Army file today, thanks for those who told me about this as I wouldn’t have known. It’s got some amazing bits in including us finding out he was briefly based in Bramley camp which is literally 5 miles down the road from where we all live now in Basingstoke.
    Has all his medical forms, application to the army etc.
     
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  19. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Next you'll probably find his initials carved in your local! Now, that would be spooky!
     
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  20. Emma Squibb

    Emma Squibb Well-Known Member

    Looks like he was only there a few months before he was captured. Can anyone make out the line above ‘disembarked Malaya’ I think it is embarked for somewhere?
     

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