Grave Adoption

Hallo Edan

I am unhappy. Someone has charged you five Euro's,
for nothing more than a print-out of the information
held by the CWGC. As far as I can see, they have
traded on your desire to respect and pay tribute to
the fallen men of all nations who helped liberate your
country.

If they charged you five Euro's, it's a commercial business.
They must pay tax on that. The fact that you have arrived
here on this forum is an indication of how little information
they provided to you about the grave you are adopting.

It's almost like someone selling you a star in a distant galaxy
and telling you, with a certificate, that it's named after your
first-born grandchild...


Your sentiment is thoroughly admirable. For those men who
fell and who have no 'sole-survivors' to follow them and tend
their grave; the placing of your flowers are so meaningful and
really truly pay tribute. But I can not help feeling that someone
has taken advantage of you...


Hmmmmm...


Does anyone else feel uncomfortable,
or is it just me not seeing something?






At home dad,

I have concerns also, it appears that the money goes to a "foundation" run by a group of Dutch ctiizens who I am sure are well intentioned, however,.

As you say, a person pays E5 for a bit of paper that states you have adopted a grave.

It would appear they (those that adopt) are required to attend,maintain,bring flowers on a regular basis & attend special memorials.

1. All maintenance costs are fully subscribed by the US Goverment so what are you actually taking care of?

2. You pay for the urn for flowers & purchase cut flowers only?

Whilst the attention that is displayed by locals is admirable, do you really need to pay for the privilage? I would think not, if you want to honour the dead that is what you do, you do not need to pay a Foundation" to get a piece of paper that tells you that this grave is yours to honour.

I say that without meaning any disrespect to the author of the thread, it is just my opnion.

Clearly the whole thrust is an emotive one & there is a Debt of Honour to fulfill, but what do they do with the money? (apart from the scroll the adopter obtains). There are over 10K names associated with this cemetary & that is serious money if all graves/memorialised names get adopted (at least once).

Here is the link for "House Rules" which seems a strange way to term things IMHO:

Adoptiegraven-Margraten

Whilst I do applaud those that visit graves to pay homage to those that gave the last full measure......, I would not pay someone for the privilage to do so.



Best Regards

Simon

 

Hallo Edan

I am unhappy. Someone has charged you five Euro's,
for nothing more than a print-out of the information
held by the CWGC. As far as I can see, they have
traded on your desire to respect and pay tribute to
the fallen men of all nations who helped liberate your
country.

If they charged you five Euro's, it's a commercial business.
They must pay tax on that. The fact that you have arrived
here on this forum is an indication of how little information
they provided to you about the grave you are adopting.

It's almost like someone selling you a star in a distant galaxy
and telling you, with a certificate, that it's named after your
first-born grandchild...


Your sentiment is thoroughly admirable. For those men who
fell and who have no 'sole-survivors' to follow them and tend
their grave; the placing of your flowers are so meaningful and
really truly pay tribute. But I can not help feeling that someone
has taken advantage of you...


Hmmmmm...


Does anyone else feel uncomfortable,
or is it just me not seeing something?



very best to you

At Home Dad, Thx again.
Honestly I don't know nothing concerning the €5, we asked if we could adopt 2 graves because we want to do this and this for al long time.
We are nor rich, far from that, but when they ask €5 we pay this ofcorse.
3 maybe 4 times a year we want to go to the British cemetery en we bring flowers with us.
On the website we understand that the cost €5 has to do with administrative costs.
But you are wright, on the document we recieved there's no information about the soldiers, expect the information which you can find also on the grave.
More information about the soldier, familie, units etc you have to search for yourself.

But take a look a the website from Brunssum War Cemetery, you can choose between Dutch and English.
Maybe this text on the website explains more for you?:


Adoption
“How do we make sure our boys will not be forgotten?”

Some 65 years ago Mrs Arpots (91) adopted the grave of British soldier Leonard Raymond Allison at the British War Cemetery in Brunssum. Still she is in good contact with the soldier’s family in the UK. “The mother of the soldier in particular was very grateful that we maintained the grave of her son. For us it was the least we could do after having been liberated.”

Just like Mrs. Arpots people from Brunssum have adopted a grave immediately following the liberation. They not only looked after the graves but also continued staying in touch with the family of the deceased soldier. Mrs. Arpots: “The family found it consoling and assuring that we maintained those graves for them. Leonard was their beloved son or brother. We have seen them frequently, and then they stayed with us or we stayed with them. We also received baby clothes and toys from them. We always had a very special relationship. I really enjoyed looking after the grave and maintain our relationship with the family.”



Photo caption:Left Mrs. Arpots, right Anne-Mie Koopmans secretary of the Foundation War Cemetery Brunssum

© Pascal Moors - Nose for Photography

Foundation

In the fifties the British Government decided to stop the adoption of war graves. The care often went to the parents’ children. By coincidence Ruud Scholten, Chrisje Baar and Anne-Mie Koopmans met and started a conversation. Anne-Mie Koopmans: “We assumed we were not the only ones who find it special to look after such a grave. Ruud Scholten subsequently asked assistance from the municipality Brunssum. Together they received permission from the British Authorities that we as Foundation War Cemetery Brunssum could revitalise the adoption of the British war graves in Brunssum.”

Adoption

Soon the adoption of the 328 war graves can be initiated officially. Anne-Mie Koopmans: “For €5 people will receive a certificate and all available data of the soldier. The only ‘commitment’ of the adoption is to put some flowers on the grave three times a year (at 4 May National Memorial Day, 11 November Poppy Day and Christmas) or to pay us so we can do this on behalf of you. That is how we make sure that these boys who died for our freedom will not be forgotten.”

Thx again en greetings, Ed and Anita

 

Hello Ed
excellent work you are involved in.

As Rich and AHD stated do you have more information on who is charging you the 5 euros.


regards
Clive

Hello CL1

Here is the website from Brunssum War Cemetery, more easy for us.
The site is in Dutch and English, so if you read this we think you understand what they write and mean.

index
And read this:
“How do we make sure our boys will not be forgotten?”

Some 65 years ago Mrs Arpots (91) adopted the grave of British soldier Leonard Raymond Allison at the British War Cemetery in Brunssum. Still she is in good contact with the soldier’s family in the UK. “The mother of the soldier in particular was very grateful that we maintained the grave of her son. For us it was the least we could do after having been liberated.”

Just like Mrs. Arpots people from Brunssum have adopted a grave immediately following the liberation. They not only looked after the graves but also continued staying in touch with the family of the deceased soldier. Mrs. Arpots: “The family found it consoling and assuring that we maintained those graves for them. Leonard was their beloved son or brother. We have seen them frequently, and then they stayed with us or we stayed with them. We also received baby clothes and toys from them. We always had a very special relationship. I really enjoyed looking after the grave and maintain our relationship with the family.”



Photo caption:Left Mrs. Arpots, right Anne-Mie Koopmans secretary of the Foundation War Cemetery Brunssum

© Pascal Moors - Nose for Photography

Foundation

In the fifties the British Government decided to stop the adoption of war graves. The care often went to the parents’ children. By coincidence Ruud Scholten, Chrisje Baar and Anne-Mie Koopmans met and started a conversation. Anne-Mie Koopmans: “We assumed we were not the only ones who find it special to look after such a grave. Ruud Scholten subsequently asked assistance from the municipality Brunssum. Together they received permission from the British Authorities that we as Foundation War Cemetery Brunssum could revitalise the adoption of the British war graves in Brunssum.”

Adoption

Soon the adoption of the 328 war graves can be initiated officially. Anne-Mie Koopmans: “For €5 people will receive a certificate and all available data of the soldier. The only ‘commitment’ of the adoption is to put some flowers on the grave three times a year (at 4 May National Memorial Day, 11 November Poppy Day and Christmas) or to pay us so we can do this on behalf of you. That is how we make sure that these boys who died for our freedom will not be forgotten.”

In frame:

Would you like to adopt a grave? Please send your request to: Stichting War Cemetery Brunssum,

Anne-Mie Koopmans, Heugerstraat 21F, 6443 BR Brunssum

Thx you and greetings, Ed and Anita

 

591-research,

Thx you,
We don't mind to pay €5 for a adopted grave, a packet of sigarettes is more expensive.
We like to do this and once you accept a grave we visit it en bring flowers 3 or 4 times a year.
But we also understand and respect other people who think different about this.
In Margraten we have adopted 2 names on the Walls of the Missing and also here you pay €4 or 5.
No problem.
In belgium for instance you pay nothing when you adopt graves, why not? , we think because they do not send Certification of Adoption. Everything goes through Email


Greetings Ed and Anita

 

With 327 Graves at 5 Euro's a headstone thats not a bad return:

CWGC :: Cemetery Details

I make that 1,635 Euro's.

Not forgetting:

The only ‘commitment’ of the adoption is to put some flowers on the grave three times a year (at 4 May National Memorial Day, 11 November Poppy Day and Christmas) or to pay us so we can do this on behalf of you.

May increase the return.

If CWGC were happy with this scheme (it is their property being 'hired out'), then so would I be. let them decide.

 

Hello

Maybe you are wright, so sorry.
But we did not look at a price first when we deceided to adopt graves.
We saw this later on the website, but we don't care like we wrote before.
Sigarettes are more expensive and the €5 are only one time.
But we think you are wright because the 2 soldiers we have adopted lay together in 1 grave.
That is what you mean?????

Thx and greetings, Ed and Anita

 

Ed no need to be sorry.
Excellent work you are doing.

Please keep us updated with any further info you find on the casualties and if we can assist in any way please post on the forum

regards
Clive

 

Thx Clive.
Sure we will do this but any tips, information etc. are still very welcome.
Ofcorse we search also, but its not so easy like in Dutch ofcorse.
Sometimes we think, yes this is the correct website where to find out more and when we want to search further you have to pay.
So this is no option for us.
We are very glad to recieve information en tips on this forum.

In time when we have enough information we will place the adopted graves in Brunssum, Margraten and Henry-Chapelle on our personal homepage.
Ofcorse it must be in English also, a lot of work but its nice work to do.
On our homepage we will make a seperate link called Adoptiegraven, under this link we will place the soldiers, their story's, Cemetery's, family if we can find some, and units.

ETiebax.nl - home

Thx and greetings, Ed and Anita

 

Hello and thank you,
It is not a commercial business, but for some cost you have to pay €5 and this is once. So for the 2 graves we have adopted we pay €10 and that's it.
So very low cost but we don't care and we think nobody cares.
All the graves in Brunssum are almost adopted. So the Dutch people like to do this for the soldiers who gave their live for our freedom.
It's the same for American Cemetery's in Holland, we also adopted 2 graves from The Wall of Missing and you pay a little for the cost (official document, Certificate of Adoption). The same like the British Cemetery in Brunssum.
We adopted 4 graves in Belgium ( Henry-Chapelle and Ardennes Cemetery in Neuville-en-Condrzo.
In Belgium you pay nothing but here you get no official papers.

The link from the Britisch Cemetery in Brunssum you asked for is:
index


We made soms photo's so you have an idea and can see what these Certificates (documents) are.

Greetings Ed, we hope you understand it better now?
And sorry if we made any mistakes in the language.




Hi,

This is a lovely idea, very respectful of your boys, and if as you say it is not for commercial gain then I am all for it. I have a cousin that is remembered on the Groesbeek Memorial Wall and have tried to find out if there is an adoption scheme there, but I couldn't find one. Do you know if one exists?

Thank you for caring enough to do this, it's heartwarming to know that the people of the Netherlands have not forgotten the sacrifices made by these young men.


Regards
JJS.

 

Hello JJS

Thx very much.
We searched for Groesbeek and found some interesting websites but we are not sure if there is an adoption scheme on the Groesbeek Memorial Wall.
http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_details.aspx?cemetery=2063700&mode=1
I found a number so i will call it for you tomorrow and you will hear from me, ok?

Greetings, Ed

 

Hello JJS

Thx very much.
We searched for Groesbeek and found some interesting websites but we are not sure if there is an adoption scheme on the Groesbeek Memorial Wall.
CWGC :: Cemetery Details
I found a number so i will call it for you tomorrow and you will hear from me, ok?

Greetings, Ed

Thank you,

I understand some of the concerns expressed, but think that it is a way of people making a commitment to visit the named grave and maybe start them off, as it has you, on a search for a personal story. That way you will feel more connected having formed a bond with the individuals life history, and possibly even the family of your adoptee. This is not just adopting a grave it is adopting a mans life story to which you are likely become very attached.

The small amount involved would suggest administrative costs and I find it comforting to think that someone would adopt our relatives graves and pay the visits and take flowers on behalf of families who are unable to do so.

Some of our relatives lie in unknown graves with just a name on a wall, probably somewhere other than where their bodies lie. They deserve to have adoptive guardians in the land in which they were forced to rest.

Thank you.

JJS.

 

Hello JJS

Well, i phoned Groesbeek for you this morning but the man I spoke about this coudn't help me further.
He told me that the headquarters of GWGC is in Ieper (Belgium).
So i phoned Ieper in Belgium and the woman told me there is no Adoption Scheme (like Margraten or Brunssum) on the Groesbeek Graves or Memorial Wall.
You just can go there, visit the Cemetery and Memerial Wall en bring flowers and lay a
funeral wreath (I hope i spell it ok??).
The site Groesbeek I phoned is Canadese Militaire erebegraafplaats Groesbeek
The office is GWGC :: CWGC ::
The GWGC in Ieper (Belgium) is De Westhoek
Elvederingsestraat 82
8900 Ieper
Tel: 057/20.01.18
Fax: 057/21.80.14
website: :: CWGC ::

So I hope i could help you with this.

Greetings ED

 

Hello JJS

Well, i phoned Groesbeek for you this morning but the man I spoke about this coudn't help me further.
He told me that the headquarters of GWGC is in Ieper (Belgium).
So i phoned Ieper in Belgium and the woman told me there is no Adoption Scheme (like Margraten or Brunssum) on the Groesbeek Graves or Memorial Wall.
You just can go there, visit the Cemetery and Memerial Wall en bring flowers and lay a
funeral wreath (I hope i spell it ok??).
The site Groesbeek I phoned is Canadese Militaire erebegraafplaats Groesbeek
The office is GWGC :: CWGC ::
The GWGC in Ieper (Belgium) is De Westhoek
Elvederingsestraat 82
8900 Ieper
Tel: 057/20.01.18
Fax: 057/21.80.14
website: :: CWGC ::

So I hope i could help you with this.

Greetings ED


Hi ED,

Thank you so much for that, it was very kind of you to try to help. You should not worry about your English or spelling it is excellent and perfectly understandable. Thank you also for the links.


Kind Regards,
JJS

 

No thx,
We also like to help other people, and if you want more information, numbers etc, let us known.
We hope you can do something with the information we gave you?
I am a bit lucky concerning English language, long ago I worked at the RAF base in Brüggen in Germany, next to the village Elmpt.
So when you work with English soldiers the whole day, its more easy to speak and understand English.
But ofcorse there are words and expressions which I don't understand so good.

Kind regards,
Ed

 

A question:
On the site Research | Adoptiegraven.nl you can click on a Individual Deceased Personnel File, you can donwload this, fill it in and send it to the U.S.A.
You can see an example (Attachement)
Our questions is:
Does someting like this exists for British soldiers, so can fill in a form and send it to the proper organisation?
If so where must I go, do you know all addresses that are interesting for searching and ask for information?

Thx and kind regards, Ed and Anita

 

A question:
On the site Research | Adoptiegraven.nl you can click on a Individual Deceased Personnel File, you can donwload this, fill it in and send it to the U.S.A.
You can see an example (Attachement)
Our questions is:
Does someting like this exists for British soldiers, so can fill in a form and send it to the proper orgaisation?
If so where must I go, do you know all addresses that are interesting for searching and ask for information?

Thx and kind regards, Ed and Anita

I haven't seen anything like it, but maybe some of the more experienced members might be able to help. If I come across anything I will let you know.

Regards,
JJS.

 

Thx JJS,

We hope you or other members can and will help us further.
We also send Email to the local paper in Swansea and to the Royal Engineers but we don't hear anything.

Regards, Ed

 

Hello

Today we recieved Email from The Roal Engineers Association.

Our question is what can we do with this information, these links they gave us.
Ofcorse we can read English but we don't understand it all, to difficult for us and we don't know wehre to go and if it cost to much for us.
Wil you read this and give us your opinion and what we can do please?

This is what we recieved:


Dear Ed and Anita,

Thank you for your email and thank you for your kindness in adopting the graves of our fallen heroes.
Unfortunately, we as an organisation do not hold any service records; we only hold contact details of our members.
The soldiers service records will probably provide the answers you need.
The following info may help in your search for his service records.
Please note the restrictions described at:

Ministry of Defence | About Defence | What we do | Personnel | Service Records | Making a Request for Information held on the Personnel Records of Deceased Service Personnel


The 2 links below will provide you with the details required and the forms to fill in order to obtain his service records.

service records sar form requests

service records army

I hope this is useful.

Please let us know what we can do, where to write if possible.

Kind regards, Ed and Anita

 

Hello

Today we recieved Email from The Roal Engineers Association.

Our question is what can we do with this information, these links they gave us.
Ofcorse we can read English but we don't understand it all, to difficult for us and we don't know wehre to go and if it cost to much for us.
Wil you read this and give us your opinion and what we can do please?

This is what we recieved:


Dear Ed and Anita,

Thank you for your email and thank you for your kindness in adopting the graves of our fallen heroes.
Unfortunately, we as an organisation do not hold any service records; we only hold contact details of our members.
The soldiers service records will probably provide the answers you need.
The following info may help in your search for his service records.
Please note the restrictions described at:

Ministry of Defence | About Defence | What we do | Personnel | Service Records | Making a Request for Information held on the Personnel Records of Deceased Service Personnel


The 2 links below will provide you with the details required and the forms to fill in order to obtain his service records.

service records sar form requests

service records army

I hope this is useful.

Please let us know what we can do, where to write if possible.

Kind regards, Ed and Anita



Hi Ed and Anita,

I will try hard to see what I can find out later today, but I hope that there are some members on here who know more than I do about this subject and can advise you better.


Kind Regards,
JJS.

 

Thank JJS and all members who wants to help us

Regards, Ed and Anita