Grandads RWF service records help..

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by leighb4, May 13, 2017.

  1. leighb4

    leighb4 Junior Member

    Hi all,
    After recieving my Grandads service records i have had a good look and need a little help interpreting some of the entries, mainly the training courses etc...Also Grandad mentioned once or twice that he was attached to another regiment poss special forces around this time (with the RWF being his parent or mother regiment) but would never go any further than that. hopefully aomeone can point me in right direction . Many thanks Leigh.[​IMG]
  2. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi Leigh,

    The Feb/ March 1944 training course "SEA VM" is likely a South East Area (Command) Vehicle Maintenance Course in connection with his trade as a Carrier Driver.

    I can't see any mention of any Special Forces posting on this page. The extra regimental posting to British Army Staff after his discharge from hospital (record doesn't say whether admitted ill or injured) might have been due to a reduction in his medical grade making him unfit for service in a front line active service Battalion.

    He may have been employed as a driver on the staff? Does his discharge reference add anything?

    Is there any reference to a wounding on his enlistment papers - there is a portion for wounds to be recorded there.

    Steve Y
  3. leighb4

    leighb4 Junior Member

    Hi steve ,
    Would this be the one ? [​IMG]
  4. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member


    You can see he was downgraded from A1 to C1 on his discharge from hospital in Aug 1944.

    I can't see a soldier with that category being with an Special Forces Unit.


    Steve Y
  5. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member


    By way of explanation this is a part copy and paste from a Roots Chat topic -

    The development of the British Army’s system of medical classification illustrates concepts that are very relevant to modern occupational health. In 1939, there was a mobilisation for war of the United Kingdom’s reserve forces. These soldiers were placed in a number of medical categories as follow:

    A – fit for general service at home and abroad,
    B – unfit for general service abroad but fit for base or
    garrison service at home and abroad,
    C – fit for home service only,
    D – unfit for any form of military service.

    The situation was complicated by the need to examine all civilian recruits, both volunteers and those called up to the Army. These examinations were performed by Civilian
    Medical Boards which classified recruits into four grades, the fourth being unfit for service.
    These grades only took account of the physical and medical condition of the recruit and made neither allowance for where the recruit was to be sent nor for their employment.
    Not surprisingly, there were complaints that recruits were physically incapable of performing their duties.

    What was needed was a system that translated the four grades given by the Civilian Medical Boards into something of use to the Army. This was critical because it was
    essential to ensure the economical use of manpower. In1940, a system of categories was selected by the Army as follows:

    · A1, A2, B1, B2, B3, B4, B5:

    These seven categories were based on vision in relation to shooting and driving, physical endurance, the ability to march and the manifestation of any other disease which would affect military duty. The categories also had caveats which determined both task and location worldwide.

    · C: Home service only.
    · D: Temporarily unfit.
    · E: Permanently unfit.

    The Army allocated a soldier to one of these categories on the basis of the Civilian Medical Board grades. The linkage was complex and never worked well.

    The scale of the problem is worth noting. During the Second World War, it is calculated that the Civilian Medical Boards undertook over seven million examinations, taking more than three and a half million hours. The results of the examinations show that by the age of 37, only 44% were fit for their age and 20% were unfit for service.

    During the War, this classification system evolved but it was never entirely satisfactory. By 1945, there were some 72 sub-categories. The key problem was the failure by medical officers, when assessing physical capacity, to distinguish between the mere existence of defect and what result that defect had on functional ability. Various developments were introduced. These included the re-examination of recruits after one month in training
    and the re-examination of personnel who had been categorised as unfit for duty, before they were sent back to duty. Various geographical qualifications were also included to ensure that soldiers, who were basically fit but could not go to the tropics, were employed in their highest category.

    The unsatisfactory situation resulted in the adoption of a Canadian system, known as PULHEMS. The PULHEMS acronym stands for the following qualities:

    P – physical capacity, U – upper extremity, L – locomotion,
    H – hearing, E – eyesight, M – mental capacity, S – stability
    of emotions.

    For each quality, the soldier is given a number. From this, a PULHHEEMS profile, a series of numbers, is derived. Note that an extra H and an extra E have been introduced so that each ear and eye can be assessed separately. This profile is used to place soldiers in an appropriate employment by the use of PULHHEEMS Employment Standards whichprovide a linkage to the type of work carried out by each part of the Army and includes geographical restrictions.

    The following is a simplification of the current British Army’s PULHHEEMS System, which has developed over 50 years:

    P2 – fully fit, P3 – light duties, P3R – pregnant, P7 – limited duties, P8 – medically unfit, P0 – unfit, under medical care.

    The P quality for overall physical capacity is the dominant one. Recent developments have concluded that the geographical limitations were unnecessarily restrictive and more flexibility has been introduced.

    The history of the introduction and development of the System has been evolutionary. It has proved remarkably robust. Since the end of the Cold War and with the development of a more expeditionary army, there has been a need to simplify it. Again...

    Steve Y
    ClankyPencil, ozzy16 and 4jonboy like this.
  6. Swiper

    Swiper Resident Sospan

    To me all very clear, I often know vets would insinuate SF involvement to try and avoid further discussions on the subject. There is a very, very good reason why so few Infantrymen spoke of their experiences in NWE.

    Given he was a Carrier Driver I'd wager he was wounded during 6 RWF's push down past 882452.

    It also seems very likely he was involved in some of the more dicey ammunition resupply by Carrier around Hill 112 post-Greenline, and probably was involved in some of the evacuation of wounded by Carrier as well.

    South of Hamars, under 59th Staffordshire's command, their column was kicking up a lost of dust and hit very heavily by enemy mortars - with numerous Carrier personnel being wounded.
    Two men were killed and fourteen more were wounded.

    Hope this is useful.

    Any more information, photos etc?
    Few pics etc below.

    6th Royal Welch Fusiliers
  7. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    I cannot see any reference to special forces either, but how wonderful to see his marriage to a French lady on the army records:)

  8. leighb4

    leighb4 Junior Member

    Hi swiper,
    Thanks for the info, would you have the 6th battalion war diaries ??
    Before Grandad passed away he briefly mentioned being injured in thurey harcourt or villiers bocage ?? Would his hospital admission date tie in with this ?
    He also recieved a war pension up until his death for damage to his hearing (deafness) is there anyway of finding out more info on his injuries by contacting pension office etc? ??
    Thanks Leigh
  9. Swiper

    Swiper Resident Sospan


    I do have them, shoot me an email through my website (link above) and happy to fire it over.

    The aforementioned engagement went hand in hand with the battle for Thury-Harcourt, as 6 RWF (under 59th Staffordshire's command) endeavoured to clear the western bank of the Orne, so to allow traffic through the town after capture - and gain another firm axis for advance towards Falaise.
  10. leighb4

    leighb4 Junior Member

    Ok thankyou, i have sent email via your site, looks a very imformative site and will have a better look later.
    Thanks leigh.
  11. leighb4

    leighb4 Junior Member

  12. leighb4

    leighb4 Junior Member

    There are a few more documents i will post, also a few photos ...
  13. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member


    I doubt you will get any info from the Pensions office as it will be classed as medical information...but by all means give it a go.

    Steve Y

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