Grandad ww2 9th queens royal lancers

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Craigio, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. Craigio

    Craigio New Member

    Hi I'm looking for some help and advice on tracing my grandads movements during ww2.

    I have had his service records sent to me but am struggling to research where his unit was and any action they may have been involved in especially in Italy.

    J Shuttleworth trooper
    service no. 3451370

    Joined 15th July 1939 - believe he was training for 6 months
    1st November joined 1st & 5th lanc fusiliers
    In france from 14th april 1940 (part of 125th brigade lf) to 8th June 1940 (although I see online his brigade was evacuated on 30th may?)
    Home 9th June 1940 to 27th march 1944
    (1st 11th 1941 transferred to 108th RAC)
    Italy 28th march 1944 - 12th jan 1946 9th queens royal lancers rac

    Both his statement of service and his military history sheet show he disembarked for North Africa however he always spoke of serving in Italy and doesn't have an African medal (has italian star) and his unit was in Italy by this time so presume he thought was going to North Africa but actually went to Italy.

    I am really struggling with Tracing the movements of the 9th lancers during my grandads time in Italy and understanding what battles if any they where involved in.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    My grandad did not like talking about the war and the only things he said to my dad where that:
    1. He was a tank driver
    2. That he was mentioned in a book when in Italy he was driving the 1st tank in a line and the 2nd one was taken out.
    3. When they first arrived in Italy they came across allot of fresh fruit and gorged themselves and if the axis had launched a counter attack they would have found most of the allied soldiers on the loo!

    Let me know if any further info would help!

    Thanks.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    Craigio,

    No doubt, more expert opinion will come forward in due course.

    You were not well served with that North Africa entry from 28.3.44 to 12.1 46. No doubt he was in North Africa for a period but would have transferred to Italy during 1944.

    9 QRL were with 2nd Armoured Brigade - initially with 1st Armoured Division - and arrived in Italy during May 1944. They were present at the Gothic Line battles in the autumn before 1st Armoured Div were disbanded in October..I know, also, that they were involved in the "final advance" through the Argenta Gap in April 1945

    As I say, experts will soon emerge to give you more granularity.

    best
     
  3. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

  4. Craigio

    Craigio New Member

    Thanks Bexley84,

    1st article I have been able to read on actual action the unit was involved in.

    Anyone know what tanks the 9th lancers had at their disposal?

    Thanks.
     
  5. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Hello and welcome to the forum.

    The war diaries below may be of interest to you, I already have the BEF one. There is also a regimental history published after the war but they sell for around a £100+ ago. There is only one copy on Abebooks and it's £275. I've checked the index of my copy and there is no one listed under Shuttleworth so he's not mentioned by name in this book.

    WO 166/1361 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS: 9 Queen's Royal Lancers.1939 Sept.- 1940 Apr., July- 1941 Aug.
    WO 167/447 9 Queen's Royal Lancers 1940 May, June
    WO 169/1393 9 Queen's Royal Lancers 1941 Sept.- Dec.
    WO 169/4481 9 Queen's Royal Lancers 1942 Jan.- Dec.
    WO 169/9325 9 Queen's Royal Lancers 1943 Jan.-Dec.
    WO 170/822 9 Queen's Royal Lancers 1944 Jan.- July
    WO 170/823 9 Queen's Royal Lancers 1944 Aug.- Dec.
    WO 170/4624 9 Queen's Royal Lancers 1945 Jan.-Dec
    WO 170/7867 9 Queen's Royal Lancers 1946 Jan.-June

    Click the red link below if you want so help getting copies of the war diaries.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  6. Craigio

    Craigio New Member

    I managed to get a copy of 9th queens royal lancers 1936 - 1945 by Jean bright, which has enabled me to follow the 9th landers journey in Italy and explain why he was in north Africa - 9th landers didn't leave for Italy until 25th may 1944 and my grandad left UK 28th March.

    I would like to know which squadron my grandad was in. Any idea how I can get this info? From other info on web I don't think he was in c squadron so just trying to find out if a or b.

    Thanks,
    Craig
     
  7. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Sometimes in the Appendices to the War Diaries it gives a list of men in each individual Squadron.

    I found out my father was in C Squadron from the 56 Recce Appendices, but I cannot say for certain if other diaries contain as much information as the ones I received.

    Sorry not to be of more help.

    Lesley
     
  8. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Craig

    you will be very lucky to find which squadron he was in so you can waste a lot of time trying to find out - be aware that he must have joined 2nd AB as

    they were reinforcing in Tunisia prior to the Italy move way too late for the Africa Star as their last battle in Africa was as right flank guard to the

    final push to Tunis and Cap Bon in the May of '43…on arrival in Italy they messed about until called forward to the Gothic Line in the September of '44

    but were not battle worthy and took a severe beating between 46th and 56th Divs at Croce and Gemmano which caused 1st Armoured to be broken up in the

    October and individual regiments to be scattered around various Divisions when they needed extra Tanks such as 78th Divisions in the last battles over the

    Po river etc…. Contrary to Richard posting - the Irish Bde DID NOT win the war…… that was me…try Googling for the Battle of Gemmano

    Cheers
     
    Craigio likes this.
  9. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Craig
    inasmuch as the 2nd Armoured brigade was ARMOURED -in an Armoured Division this usually meant that they were equipped with Sherman Tanks for fast pursuit

    actions as opposed to Churchills for those Tank Brigades which assaulted the enemy's lines to allow the Pursuit Tanks to do their thing…as can be seen in the

    Battle for Gemmano the North Irish Horse opened the defence lines for the 2nd Bde to go through…

    Cheers
     
    Craigio likes this.
  10. tyshapuzzle

    tyshapuzzle New Member

    Hello,

    I am new to the forum but hoping someone here can help.

    I am looking for any information on my Great Uncle Cpl John Moore.

    From CWGC I know that his regimental number was 3598081 and that he was with the 9th Queen's Royal Lancers in Italy when he was killed on the 10th of September 1944 aged 30. He is buried in Gradara war cemetery.

    I have done some limited research of my own and i think he may have died at San Savino? I see from this topic and others that some here have access to various records and accounts and I wondered if anyone could help me out with what the unit were involved in leading up to this date.

    Many thanks in advance,
    Annemarie
     
  11. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Hello Annemarie and welcome to the forum.

    If I'm not mistaken, forum member Andy (Drew5233) has some information on the 9th Queens. I will send him a private message and I am sure he will get back to you :)

    Lesley
     
  12. idler

    idler GeneralList Patron

    Annemarie,

    He is mentioned in the regimental history 9th Queen's Royal Lancers 1936-1945 by Joan Bright, page 188:


     
    4jonboy and Drew5233 like this.
  13. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Seeing as Andrew beat me to the book entry here's a few pages from the Regiments War Diary ;)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    4jonboy likes this.
  14. tyshapuzzle

    tyshapuzzle New Member

    Thankyou all for your help and such a fast response.
    I imagine the other main source of info will be his service record?
    Could anyone explain what "leaguer" means. It is referred to several times in both of these sources.

    Thanks again
    Annemarie
     
  15. idler

    idler GeneralList Patron

    Leaguer was the term (verb and noun) used for the tanks' overnight halt where they would rearm, refuel, be maintained and their crews - if they were really lucky - get some food and sleep. 'Harbour' is a more modern term. Leaguer is also seen as 'laager' sometimes because of the Boer habit of circling the wagons.
     
  16. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Annemarie

    as Idler says - we still "circled the wagons " in Lagger in case of enemy counter attacks - meant to be a restful time

    after a days fighting - it usually was anything but restful - having to re stock some 90 heavy rounds of 6 pounder ammo- clean the
    guns - check the engine and wireless - repair any damage- do an hour's guard duty - make and eat food - if available - then around
    two hours sleep - awake at five to start fighting once more - and those were the fun days…

    Cheers
     
    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  17. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    This might also be of use to some with an interest in the 9th Queen's Royal Lancers - as the relatively new (?) website at:

    http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/

    Is searchable, pretty user friendly (and pretty good :) )

    There are some Journals:

    http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals

    Including searchable pdf's of the regimental histories (mentioned above?) here:

    http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories

    I've found them pretty helpful anyhow :D - though says on page 61:
    http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/37850

    "At dawn on the 17th of June (1940) we steamed into Plymouth" - and I have a postcard from my grandad (from the 19th June 1940) "we have landed safely at Falmouth" and hope to be given leave shortly (but he might have missed the boat? and be having to catch up?)

    He was in RHQ squadron 9th L apparently. :salut:

    All the best,

    Rm.
     
  18. Shurvy

    Shurvy New Member

    I have just joined the forum looking for information on Lt Patrick Henry William Wauchope 271883 Buchan from 9th QRL who was also reported as KIA 10th September- buried locally and then reburied the following May in Gradara. Extraordinary that the name appears also in this excerpt.
    I started this search with just a name picked from the memorial list of ex pupils at a small prep school in Norfolk. These names are read out each year by a pupil at the Remembrance Service at the nearby church. My son came home from the service this year wanting to find out more. I have become hooked and this young man is slowly coming to life through amazing forums like this! Thank you
     
  19. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Shurvy.

    As I said on the ISA site, email me through www.cassinobattlefields.co.uk or Start a Conversation on this site and I will send you what I have,

    Regards

    Frank
     

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