Grandad was a POW. 4459605 Richard JAMES, DLI

Discussion in 'Durham Light Infantry' started by KarenBlakey, Oct 18, 2022.

  1. KarenBlakey

    KarenBlakey Member

    Hi Janet,

    Do you know of any good sources of information about the Hospital 207 and the rescue of the prisoners please? I am wondering if it will be found on Italian sites. I cannot find it being discussed and I would have thought it would have been. I also know my Grandad escaped at some point and I am wondering if he escaped with Oldfield? He will have been recaptured because he did end up in Stalag 344 and was repatriated from there. He could have escaped between 1941 and 1943 too though. There are some big gaps where nothing is known.
     
  2. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Hello Karen,

    The only source I know of is the Red Cross Report on conditions which is held in the National Archives:

    Military hospital 207 Milan

    I have not read it. The report was compiled before the Armistice and there will be nothing in it about what happened to the prisoners after the bombings, though they may well all be listed.

    There is also a Red Cross Report on Hospital 206 Nocera

    You can obtain a copy from them but a cheaper method is to hire a private researcher. Send me a private message.

    The only reliable Italian source on line is campifascisti.it.
    On this site there is a very brief document on Nocera saying that the military hospital was to be opened to prisoners of war. There is nothing on Milan.

    Escapes
    What evidence do you have that he escaped?.

    There were very few escapes from prisoner of war camps before the Italian armistice of 8 September 1943. Most of these escapes were made by officers. I have a list compiled from campifascisti.it and your grandfather is not on it.

    When the International Red Cross compiled their Prioners of War list, WO 392/21, which gave each man's last known camp and was published in August 1943, your grandfather was shown in Nocera:

    upload_2022-10-31_18-53-37.png

    I think it safe to say that he was transferred from Nocera to Milan sometime during the summer of '43 and that he did not escape between the date you give - 9 the May - and the bombing pf the hospital in August.. Wouldn't his injury have prevented that amyway?.

    I will check to see if there is an escape and evasion report for Oldfield. If anyone did escape from Bergamo hospital with him it may be referred to in this document. If I find his report I will edit this post with its catalogue reference.

    Janet

    Edited : Major Oldfield's Escape report is in file WO 208/4264 TNA. He registered in Switzerland on 1 October 1943. I have read the citation for his OBE which gives 10 September as the date on which he escaped from the hospital at Bergamo - two days after the armistice.. Send for his escape report - it's your only chance to find out if your grandfather escaped with him.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2022
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  3. KarenBlakey

    KarenBlakey Member

    Thank you so much Janet. The records of Peter Oldfield are available from King's college London. OLDFIELD, Maj Peter Carlton (1911-1992)' (REF:GB 0099 KCLMA Oldfield)

    I am waiting to hear back from them. Major Oldfield just walked out through a back door. The overall command to british soldiers was not to escape at this time. There was a general rule to try and escape throughout the war. This was allegedly a decision from MI9 but difficult to get good info on this due to it proving to be a very bad decision for 50000 prisoners.

    I read that oldfield escaped even though wounded and that is why I haven't ruled out my grandads wounds preventing him from escaping. Oldfield was supposed to be paralysed down one side. Do you know how I could get any of his hospital records from necaro or Milan?

    Re evidence of him escaping. It has been discussed in the family but I have no evidence of this. He was in a German pow too and this is where he got repatriated from. So if he did escape he will have been recaptured. He ended up in stalag 344 according to records. He was repatriated in May 1944, which is the same year oldfield was repatriated.

    I will update you if I find put anything else. Thanks so much for such a prompt reply and for your help.
    Karen
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2022
  4. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Do they have a copy of his escape report? I'll repeat my earlier advice to send for his Escape Report.

    Nocera - No. the hospital is no longer in existence. The archive may well be at the Ministry of Defence in Rome.
    Milan Military Hospital - you could write to the following address
    Via Simone Saint Bon 7
    - 20147 Milano (MI)

    Italia
     
  5. KarenBlakey

    KarenBlakey Member

    Hi Janet,

    I have started following up on your advice.

    Thank you very much,
    Karen
     
  6. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Karen, I have checked TNA website for the dates on which the International Red Cross inspected the three hospitals in which your grandfather was a patient.

    Nocera - between 1943 Feb 01 - 1943 Jul 31
    Milan - between 1943 Aug 01 - 1943 Sep 30
    Bergamo - between 1942 Sep 01 - 1943 Dec 31

    This suggests that Nocera was closed on or before 31 July. The men from Nocera would have been transferred to Milan after that date.

    The hospital in Bergamo had been functioning since 1942.Note that the last inspection would have been in December '43 so there is almost certainly something in the Red Cross Report regarding the men who were there/escaped at the time of the Armistice.

    The Red Cross hospital reports often named the seriously injured so I think there's a strong chance that both Major Oldfield and your grandfather appear in all three. If I were you I would get a copy of all three reports. Note that the Bergamo Report is in the same file as that of Hospital 202 at Lucca. Writing to Milan could lead to a very long wait followed by a refusal.

    Regards,

    Janet
     

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