got the ol boys record

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by jimbop, May 4, 2015.

  1. jimbop

    jimbop Banned

    hi all,

    yep just got the ol mans record. he told me he was court marshalled in peace time and then called up in 1940 but jesus!....all his record says is 'awarded 14 days..blah blah.

    I think hes lucky they didn't shoot him! lol

    theres a stamp on record ' transferred under the provisions of ACI626 of 1939 to' queens r r HOFOR A.A.1981.

    I know when called back up he went in the hamps reg then this transfer was to the queens royals [west kent]. thing is was this a compulsory transfer?

    he served in india in peacetime and then Burma with the queens[still getting nicked frequently alas]

    also apart from Colchester nick where he done some time, would he have done lengthy time in india or would he do that after being shipped home?

    thanx,
    jim.
     
  2. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi Jim,

    I'm sure it would help forum members to help you if you could attach copies of his service papers.

    IMHO -

    Transfer from one infantry regiment to another in wartime would be compulsory.

    There would have been Military Detention Barracks (Military Prison) in India/Burma where he would have served his sentence.

    I make that assertion in the basis I know there was such an establishment in Egypt.

    It would be unlikely he would have been repatriated to UK to serve his sentence.

    Regards

    Steve Y
     
  3. jimbop

    jimbop Banned

    thanx for reply steve, ive attached some images.
     

    Attached Files:

    • 19.jpeg
      19.jpeg
      File size:
      224.2 KB
      Views:
      102
    • 21.jpeg
      21.jpeg
      File size:
      238.5 KB
      Views:
      110
    • 22.jpeg
      22.jpeg
      File size:
      200.6 KB
      Views:
      97
    • 23.jpeg
      23.jpeg
      File size:
      263.1 KB
      Views:
      83
    • 24.jpeg
      24.jpeg
      File size:
      225.3 KB
      Views:
      97
    • 25.jpeg
      25.jpeg
      File size:
      261 KB
      Views:
      84
  4. Lotus7

    Lotus7 Well-Known Member

    Hi and welcome to the forum Jimbop, certainly sounds like an interesting character. Wish you well with your research
     
  5. chrisgrove

    chrisgrove Senior Member

    Hi Jim

    Please note that the Queens Royal Regiment is from West Surrey, not West Kent. This may help to avoid you or anyone researching in the wrong place. But don't visit the Queens Museum as it burnt down last week!

    Chris
     
  6. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi Jim,

    Thanks for posting his statement of service papers.

    I think he would have served in India/Burma with 1st Queens.

    If you have been provided copies of B103 Active Service Casualty forms you should have more detail of his movements and possibly the reason why he was discharged as unfit in 1945.

    I can't see any Medal Issue stamp on the forms you have posted. If he did not apply post war you can still apply now.

    Interesting list of discipline offences pre war - clearly not a happy soldier!

    Regards

    Steve
     
  7. jimbop

    jimbop Banned

    thanx for the replies chaps!

    yes chris It seems it was the west surreys...strange because im sure he mentioned the 'queens own'?

    I didn't get any casualty form steve, but I know he was discharged after getting malaria for the umpteenth time. medal wise, on the form it says he got the war medal though I recall him saying he threw his medal'S in the bin but no entry for the Burma star on form.

    regarding his 'escapades' the stories he told me were just him and a few mates off for a jolly up, nicking the odd lorry to get into town.
    I understand all the battalions movements and war diaries were kept in clandon house? what a pity.

    regards,
    jim.
     
  8. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Jim,

    If you didn't get any B103 forms from MOD I would phone Glasgow to make sure they have sent you everything.

    It won't be the first time they have left something out of the papers sent to relatives - although there is the chance his B103's have simply been "mislaid" over time.

    B103 is the wartime source document for the incidents recorded on his statement of service forms. There will be other detail on B103 - it should list hospital admissions, leave, courses and probably minor discipline offences (which did not merit an entry in his statement of services form) etc.

    It is the most informative army form to have. As he served 1940 until early 1945 there should be 4 or 5 - or possibly more - B103 forms that have not been sent to you.

    Regards

    Steve
     
  9. jimbop

    jimbop Banned

    hmm, thanks for that info steve, just belled Glasgow...woman was unhelpful. I asked if she could check, seems ill have to email them with ref numbers etc.

    a lot of potential info im missing by the looks of it. :(

    regards,
    jim.
     
  10. idler

    idler GeneralList Patron

    The bulk of the museum's archives were transferred to the County archive - the Surrey History Centre some time ago. Although they are safe, I don't expect they will have a great deal of official personal information amongst them.
     
  11. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi Jim,

    Fingers crossed you get a positive result from Glasgow.

    Please come back to the forum with an update.

    You may wish to post on the Burma sub forum to discover what 1st Queens involvement was in the campaign in the Far East.

    Steve
     
  12. Lotus7

    Lotus7 Well-Known Member

    Hi Jim, please keep us updated, an interesting post and chap
     
  13. jimbop

    jimbop Banned

    hi all,

    bad news :(

    'Dear Mr Powell
    I have checked your father’s record again but I am sorry to say that there was no service and casualty form held.

    It would appear that documents from your father’s record were sent to the Ministry of Pensions in 1944 and unfortunately the casualty form was probably part of the documentation sent to them. The Public Records Act 1956 and 1963 provided that documents reaching the age of 30 years were to be destroyed or placed in the public domain and unfortunately the record sent to the Ministry of Pensions would have fallen into the deemed destroyed range.

    I am sorry for a disappointing reply.'

    30 years seems well hasty to destroy records. looks like I need a trip to the surrey history centre.
    will I be able to find what company/platoon he was in there?

    ive started reading 'an infantry company in arakan'
    http://www.queensroyalsurreys.org.uk/ww2/arakan_kohima/contents.shtml

    hairs on the back of neck stood up as I recognised a story he told me there about a sword swinging jap s/major!

    also ordered 'fighting through to kohima' so that should keep me occupied for a while.

    cheers,
    jim.
     
  14. jimbop

    jimbop Banned

    hi all,
    well I paid a visit to the surrey history site hoping to find which company he served in but with no luck.
    this really is frustrating as I can follow the battalions movements through the arakan, but the companys were all deployed separately.

    looking at the last scan of his record [above] his unit is 1st batt at 20/9/43 then his unit changes to '4117' ?...'41D'?? in 1944. I cant make it out.

    I would think hes either probably either banged up or in hospital. discharged a bit later with malaria.

    anyone have a clue what that unit is?

    thanx,
    jim.
     
  15. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    41D. I think the answer lies in the lines that follow.
    In Close arrest pending trial.
    Admitted Colchester Military Hospital.
    released to open arrest.
    The 1 is closer to the D then the 4, so the 1 and D goes together 1D.
    But if the 1 is a capital i then it's 4 ID.
    In 1939 Colchester was the home of the 4th infantry Division.
    Colchester also had and still has a military detention centre there.
     
    jimbop and Tricky Dicky like this.
  16. jimbop

    jimbop Banned

    thanks for having a look at this. its that 'D' that stumps me.
    is it a D?..4117?
    your explanation is certainly the best but can you get posted to a division?

    or would it be that because colchester glasshouse and hospital not having a unit name?
     
  17. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    It does not say he was posted there, just 4 ID in the column headed unit.
    It could also stand for 4th Infantry Detention centre.
    We just cannot know what the person, who wrote it meant.
    They were not interested in whether anyone in the future could understand it, as long as the officer in charge understood it, it would do. Their minds were on other things, wine women and song. If I remember correctly this is aptly portrayed at the beginning of the film the Virgin Soldiers. 1969.
     
    jimbop likes this.

Share This Page