German Special Forces

Discussion in 'Axis Units' started by Dpalme01, Jun 25, 2004.

  1. No.9

    No.9 Senior Member

    Perhaps it depends on your point of view? The Brandenburgers were formed by the Abwehr, Admiral Canaris, and fell ‘out of grace’ together with Canaris and the Abwehr after the July Plot to assassinate Hitler. Anything Abwehr was considered a threat or was liable to be. The bulk of the Brandenburgers were turned into a motorised infantry (Panzer-Grenadiers) and depleted on the Eastern Front, but one or two thousand joined Otto Skorzeny, who, was and remained a Waffen-SS Sturmbannfuhrer.

    Otto and his men were a favourite of Hitler and while performing special operations for him, were not used as the basis to found a significantly large organisation like the Commandos. The Brandenburgers conducted overt and covert assignments involving one man up to hundreds - the same as Skorzeny did or could have done if so tasked. One role was that of Stormtroops and probably in this role you can find parallels with the Waffen-SS. However, to conform to the true nature of ‘raiders’, the unit needs to move fast, strike quickly, then be relieved or withdraw. Perhaps the Waffen-SS can be seen more in terms of ‘spearhead’?

    No.9
     
  2. Brownag

    Brownag Member

    Originally posted by BeppoSapone+Jul 5 2004, 08:47 AM-->(BeppoSapone @ Jul 5 2004, 08:47 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-robh2k4@Jul 4 2004, 02:35 PM
    What part in the army where the gestapo in the german army?
    Others have answered your question about the Gestapo.

    The word "Gestapo" is made up from the start of the German words for "Secret State Police" - Geheime Staats Polizei.
    [post=26645]Quoted post[/post]
    [/b]
    Was there not something called the Geheime Feld Polizei which was a military version of the Gestapo?

    I also recall reading somewhere that the Germans used ex-USAAF B-17s that had force landed over occupied territories to drop agents over the Eastern Front in the later part of the war since they had few long range bombers they could spare.
    The agents dropped would not be classed as special forces, they would more accurately be described as spies but I'm sure the crew of the B-17s could be classed as special forces.
     
  3. angie999

    angie999 Very Senior Member

    Originally posted by Brownag@Oct 16 2004, 03:15 PM

    Was there not something called the Geheime Feld Polizei which was a military version of the Gestapo?



    There may have been. Geheime simply means secret and German military police units were involved in occupation duties and operations against resisters and partisans. It would make sense for some of them to do clandestine work. I don't think this qualifies them as special forces though.
     
  4. Brownag

    Brownag Member

    Originally posted by angie999+Oct 16 2004, 05:39 PM-->(angie999 @ Oct 16 2004, 05:39 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Brownag@Oct 16 2004, 03:15 PM

    Was there not something called the Geheime Feld Polizei which was a military version of the Gestapo?



    I don't think this qualifies them as special forces though.
    [post=28758]Quoted post[/post]
    [/b]
    I wasn't thinking of the GEFEPO as special forces, I was only adding some information to earlier posts on the thread which had gone off on a bit of a tangent.

    Back to special forces though there was an SS unit, 500 (Parachute)Bn used to raid Tito's HQ. It was something of a penal bn I think.

    There was a special unit attached to the Afrika Korps as well wasn't there? although technically I think they may have been part of the Brandenburg Regiment.
     
  5. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

    There was a special unit attached to the Afrika Korps as well wasn't there? although technically I think they may have been part of the Brandenburg Regiment.
    [post=28775]Quoted post[/post]
    That was the 999th penal btn

    But there is also the 115th prussian marine btn led by Georg von Konrat and used for "special operations" in Russia.
     
  6. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

    I also recall reading somewhere that the Germans used ex-USAAF B-17s that had force landed over occupied territories to drop agents over the Eastern Front in the later part of the war since they had few long range bombers they could spare.
    The agents dropped would not be classed as special forces, they would more accurately be described as spies but I'm sure the crew of the B-17s could be classed as special forces.
    [post=28754]Quoted post[/post]
    That was the Real KG200 which not just B17s but other captured enemy aircraft

    in the same way the allies used captured aircraft for specail ops.
     

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  7. GUMALANGI

    GUMALANGI Senior Member

    How about X Kampfgruppe led by Oberst Skorzeny,.. during the battle of the Bulge,.. with captured m10 Motor carriage, penetrated deep into allied lines,.. and created much of confusions,..
     
  8. DAVE1

    DAVE1 Junior Member

    Hi,what was the history of the Werewolves toward the end of the war?
     
  9. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    Originally posted by morse1001@Oct 18 2004, 05:39 PM
    I also recall reading somewhere that the Germans used ex-USAAF B-17s that had force landed over occupied territories to drop agents over the Eastern Front in the later part of the war since they had few long range bombers they could spare.
    The agents dropped would not be classed as special forces, they would more accurately be described as spies but I'm sure the crew of the B-17s could be classed as special forces.
    [post=28754]Quoted post[/post]
    That was the Real KG200 which not just B17s but other captured enemy aircraft

    in the same way the allies used captured aircraft for specail ops.
    [post=28813]Quoted post[/post]
    Not quite. KG 200 is the subject of a lot of fast fiction, but in reality, its purpose was to test and analyze planes the Luftwaffe captured. They flew the usual collection of captured planes...P-47s, and so on.
     
  10. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    Originally posted by DAVE@Apr 22 2005, 01:09 PM
    Hi,what was the history of the Werewolves toward the end of the war?
    [post=33392]Quoted post[/post]
    There are two excellent books on the subject, one called "Hitler's Werewolves," by Charles Whiting, the other just called "Werewolf." Both are on my Bibliography on my website. Start there. They killed the American-appointed Mayor of Aachen and caused some low-level chaos -- stringing wires across roads to decaptitate jeep drivers and so on -- but fizzled out by 1948.
     
  11. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

    Originally posted by Kiwiwriter+Apr 25 2005, 01:56 PM-->(Kiwiwriter @ Apr 25 2005, 01:56 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-DAVE@Apr 22 2005, 01:09 PM
    Hi,what was the history of the Werewolves toward the end of the war?
    [post=33392]Quoted post[/post]
    There are two excellent books on the subject, one called "Hitler's Werewolves," by Charles Whiting, the other just called "Werewolf." Both are on my Bibliography on my website. Start there. They killed the American-appointed Mayor of Aachen and caused some low-level chaos -- stringing wires across roads to decaptitate jeep drivers and so on -- but fizzled out by 1948.
    [post=33476]Quoted post[/post]
    [/b]

    Flying all Luftwaffe special missions
    In february 1944, Luftwaffe headquarters ordered that all strategic and covert aerial reconnaissance, secret agent deliveries, special delivery flights to japan, and experimental aircraft testing, in fact all special missions, will be concentrated in one new unit, code-named bomber wing 200. The commander of the new unit was Werner Baumbach, a very experienced and highly decorated bomber pilot and leader who survived over four years of bombing missions over enemy territory, over France, Britain, Russia, and elsewhere.
    KG 200 was made of several large squadrons. It was also geographically spread in multiple bases all over europe. The total secrecy in KG 200, as common in such top secret units, was such that its people knew very little of each other's activity, to minimize security breach in case of captivity. It had over 100 air crews and operated over 30 different german and allied aircraft types.

    The 1st squadron of KG 200 was in charge of flying german secret agents to and from allied territory. It had a long-range group, and a short-range group which was spread all over europe. It got its operational orders directly from the SD, the nazi party's intelligence service.

    The 2nd squadron of KG 200 was in charge of all other operations, including electronic warfare and special bombing missions, long range patrols as far as the US east coast, and special cargo missions which flew all the way to japanese held north china. It operated from hidden airstrips all over europe, usually near forests, used to hide their special aircraft from allied pilots.

    Additional squadrons which were established but did not become operational before the war ended, were the german suicide attack unit, equipped with a human-piloted version of the V-1 cruise missile, and a very long range squadron intended to reach the US east coast and other remote targets.

    All secret agent delivery missions were night missions, to further minimize exposure to the enemy, and they relied on the navigation skills of the navigators, which were the best and most experienced navigators in the Luftwaffe.

    To further minimize the risk to both pilots and agents in secret agent insertion missions, especially when a team of agents was involved, the Luftwaffe developed a special human air drop device. It was a bomb-like cylinder carried by a bomber, in which three secret agents and their equipment could be safely dropped from the bomber to the enemy ground. The cylinder was equipped with a parachute, a telephone which enabled the secret agents to speak with the bomber pilot during the flight, and a shock absorber to further ease the landing. It allowed the german intelligence to safely land single, or teams, of secret agents in enemy territory, with heavier equipment and without the common risk of parachuting leg injuries.


    Allied bombers in Luftwaffe service
    During the war, the Luftwaffe downed many allied bombers over german held territory. Others landed because of technical problems. Some of these bombers remained flyable. Initially these captured bombers, such as american B-17s and B-24s and russian Pe-2s and Tupolevs and other aircraft, were flown by the Luftwaffe for studying their capabilities for intelligence and technological analysis. These test-flown bombers were given Luftwaffe markings, like the one in the picture above.
    Later, KG 200 began to use these captured long range bombers for its top secret missions. With the increasing air superiority of allied air forces, the german retreats, and the increasing use of radar and radar-equipped night fighters, it became ever harder for the german bombers to fly deep into allied airspace. Flying long-ranged captured allied bombers instead of the smaller and shorter range german bombers was a perfect solution for the Luftwaffe. These bombers could fly further and could fly over the most protected allied targets, day and night, without being even shot at, as they looked and sounded exactly like allied bombers. It was the perfect equivalent of the stealth bomber. The captured allied bombers used by KG 200 were not given german markings and remained with their original allied colors and markings for complete day or night deception of allied pilots and anti-aircraft gunners which saw them. They could fly anywhere, day or night, make aerial photos, drop agents, bomb targets, track allied bomber formations and constantly report their exact position and altitude without being intercepted by their fighter escorts, etc, etc, and so they did.

    Bomber-size missiles
    In world war 2, germany led in the development of guided bombs and missiles. In addition to operating normal guided weapons, such as the Hs-293 missile and Fritz X bomb, KG 200 operated the heaviest and most unique type of weapon operated by the Luftwaffe, the Mistel bomber-size missile.
    Mistel was a bomber, usually a Junkers 88, that was transformed to a huge missile by replacing its cockpit with a four tons warhead, placing a mount on its back for carrying a mounted fighter aircraft (picture above), and connecting the unmanned bomber's flight controls to the fighter, so that the fighter's pilot could fly the dual aircraft all the way to the target, usually a large fixed strategic target such as a dam, a power station, or a large bridge, aim the bomber to its final dive to the target, and then disconnect the fighter from it and fly home. The Mistel bomber-missile had a long range and could smash the largest targets.

    In their first attack, in june 1944, four Mistels sank ships in the english channel. One of the major planned Luftwaffe attacks was supposed to destroy russia's largest hydro-electric power stations with Mistels, and by doing so reduce Russia's electricity production by 75%, but most of them were destroyed on the ground by a US air attack before the operation. The Mistel's last attack, in march 1945, was personally led by Werner Baumbach, commander of KG 200. A large group of Mistels took off for the mission, most of them were shot down, but five Mistels destroyed large bridges over rivers in east germany, in order to delay russian advance into germany.

    KG200
     
  12. Karl Anreiter

    Karl Anreiter Discharged

    SS unit 500 was led by Otto Skorzeny and rescued Mussolini. It is a myth that they were a penal battalion.

    karl
     
  13. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    Originally posted by Karl Anreiter@Aug 14 2005, 03:34 PM
    SS unit 500 was led by Otto Skorzeny and rescued Mussolini. It is a myth that they were a penal battalion.

    karl
    [post=37747]Quoted post[/post]

    Yes, one of the annoying things about postwar movies about elite units is that they always portray them as being penal outfits, or drawn from guys facing court-martial, like "The Dirty Dozen." The actual members of VMF-214 objected to their portrayal in "The Black Sheep Squadron" as being a bunch of reprobates and criminals, and complained to Pappy Boyington at a reunion. They were also unimpressed with the bubbleheaded blondes with Farrah Fawcett-hairdos that shared the fictional island and adventures.
     
  14. Herroberst

    Herroberst Senior Member

    This thread will be a discussion of The various military or combat Special Forces of the Wehrmacht and the SS. This will not include anything to do with Einsatzgruppen or the camps. It will deal with Luftgruppen KG-200, The Brandenburg Division, Units of the Kriegsmarine involving frogmen, mini subs and speedboats packed with explosives, The Abwehr, The Reichsicherheitshauptamt, SD operatives, The Wehrwolves and finally Gerbirgsjager and Fallschirmjager truppen.
     
  15. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek

    I found these today. From KG200, amazing photos.
     

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  16. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek

  17. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Cheers for the German B17 pics Gage. They're marvellous!
    Where from?
    Were these used solely as Jhor9 has described elsewhere as sneaky spotters or ever in a more offensive manner? The Markings imply to me that they were??
     
  18. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek

    This large fleet of aircraft included Ar-232s, B-17s, B-24s, Bv-138s, Bv-222s, Ju-52s, Ju-88s, Ju-188s, Ju-352s, Ju-290s, Ju390s, He-111s, He-177s, Pe-2s (Soviet), and Sb-2s (Soviet) to name a few... These aircraft used operationally on all fronts carrying out a great variety of missions ranging from reconnaissance, to cargo transport, to the covert ferrying of agents in and out of enemy territory, to bombing and missile attacks! Many a German agent was dropped in Allied territory by this unit, what better disguise than a B-17? These aircraft were also used to shadow 8th Air Force bomber formations sending out a constant stream of radio updates of the air battle with up to the minute altitude and heading of the big bomber boxes; and this, without fear of attack from Allied fighters. Some of these aircraft were re-designated so as to not attract attention, for example, the B-17s in Luftwaffe service were referred to as the Dernier 200.

    From the above site.
    Russian aircraft were also used.
     
  19. Herroberst

    Herroberst Senior Member

    One of the principle problems KG-200 faced when running their bus service was friendly fire from their own Luftwaffe Flak Batteries.

    Besides KG-200 using American equipment, Panzer Brigade 150, a special forces unit under Otto Skorzeny, had about 50+ jeeps and light cars, over 70 trucks and two Shermans. They fleshed out the rest of the group with German equipment made to look like American. However, this was to have the effect of only deceiving Green troops at night over a great distance.

    His make up of the unit consisted of about

    800 men from the Luftwaffe Battle Group 200

    175 men from SS Jagdverband Mitte

    380 men from SS Para Abt 600

    590 men of the Panzertruppen

    200 men from Heers Mortar troops

    200 men from an AT Kompanie

    and 375 signals, engineer and repair men.

    Out of these men 10 spoke fluent english with no idioms and 40 had a good command of the language. The rest about 150 could understand english and the others were out of luck.

    Panzer Brigade 150 operated between Baughez and Stavelot to capture Malmedy.

    The Fallschirmjager under Oberst Baron von der Heydte were to block reinforcements sent by the Americans to prevent the crossing of the Meuse by Sixth SS Panzer Armee.

    The basic accomplishments of these units were strictly psychological. Although ammo dumps, road signs, and telephone lines were put out of action. Units were held up and a great paranoia spread with Americans realizing the infiltration behind their lines.

    The incursion of the special forces were paid for with the highest price paid by the men as those captured were executed since they were wearing American uniforms.
     
  20. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek

    One of the principle problems KG-200 faced when running their bus service was friendly fire from their own Luftwaffe Flak Batteries.

    Besides KG-200 using American equipment, Panzer Brigade 150, a special forces unit under Otto Skorzeny, had about 50+ jeeps and light cars, over 70 trucks and two Shermans. They fleshed out the rest of the group with German equipment made to look like American. However, this was to have the effect of only deceiving Green troops at night over a great distance.

    His make up of the unit consisted of about

    800 men from the Luftwaffe Battle Group 200

    175 men from SS Jagdverband Mitte

    380 men from SS Para Abt 600

    590 men of the Panzertruppen

    200 men from Heers Mortar troops

    200 men from an AT Kompanie

    and 375 signals, engineer and repair men.

    Out of these men 10 spoke fluent english with no idioms and 40 had a good command of the language. The rest about 150 could understand english and the others were out of luck.

    Panzer Brigade 150 operated between Baughez and Stavelot to capture Malmedy.

    The Fallschirmjager under Oberst Baron von der Heydte were to block reinforcements sent by the Americans to prevent the crossing of the Meuse by Sixth SS Panzer Armee.

    The basic accomplishments of these units were strictly psychological. Although ammo dumps, road signs, and telephone lines were put out of action. Units were held up and a great paranoia spread with Americans realizing the infiltration behind their lines.

    The incursion of the special forces were paid for with the highest price paid by the men as those captured were executed since they were wearing American uniforms.

    Thanks Herrmeister, some good info there. :)
     

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