German Flying Saucers (Nazi UFOS)

And it's your proof of the Avorcar, that acts as proof against working flying saucers.

It's a low level hovercraft without the skirt. Look at the plans. It's just a powerful standard jet engine with the force directed down. No pictures show it more than a few feet off the ground. It doesn't fly it hovers.

But if that is shown in public why is it the only one? Why aren't there flyindg saucers seen every day. Because there aren't any.

 

I vill not rest until I prove the existence of military flying saucers.

 

Now I have a little more time.....
And it's not radical to believe that an atom bomb went off in germany, because they spent the last half of the war working endlessely on one.

No you are right. It would not be too radical to believe that the Germans detonated an atomic device. At least not if there were some evidence. Unfortunatly you seem to latch on to the slimest of facts and throw all your faith into them. Not a bad thing in itself, but it won't win you many arguments.

You quote the Avrocar as an example of the flying saucer technology. It may be round and look like a saucer, but it couldn't fly, just hover. To quote reports "Never did more than hover at low altitude, and was abandoned after seven months because of stability problems" and "In actuality, the prototype never flew out of ground effect." At his point I would like to point out that this 'Technology' was from 1960, having had more 10 years to improve on the so called flying prototypes you insist that the Germans had. Not much of an improvment.

You quote a report on the BBC website as proof that the Germans detonated an atomic device, yet you ignore the second half of the report which counter the one voice for that theory, with many voices that argue against it, including "The eyewitnesses he puts forward are either unreliable or they are not reporting first-hand information; allegedly key documents can be interpreted in various ways," and that's from Der Spiegle, who would have picked it up and ran with it if there was even a hint of a real story.

You say "Claims are types of evidence! And plus, there must be something behind this whole saucer idea and the atomic bomb in germany. After all, why would so many people talk about it if it didn't have some truth to it?"

Im afraid that any claim has to be proven before it has any foundation in business or law. You will also find out that just because a lot of people talk about something it doesn't make it true. You can have a room full of people who have been told what happened, and even some of them who swear that they saw what happened. But they can all be proved wrong if there is solid evidence. And that's all I ask before I believe any of these 'German Flying Saucer' or 'German Atomic Test' stories (even though I know from a very reliable and professional source that the second isn't true). Your 'evidence' so far has been far from convincing, far from reliable and as far as I can see far from any worth. Just because you believe it doesn't mean that others have to be convinced. Ask yourself if what you show would prove the case in a court of law. If it won't, it's not really evidence.

 

Ask yourself if what you show would prove the case in a court of law. If it won't, it's not really evidence.

Well i only have a bunch of documentaries that i found on the subject, some video footage of the avorcar, and lots of sketch plans. And lots of 'heresay'.

Would convincing evidence be something like Authentic military documents?

As for the whole avorcar thing failing, the whole 'rumour' behind the history of the military flying saucers is that just recently the military of America has made fully functioning, mach 1 flying saucers. They're just hiding it from us like they did the stealth bomber (which as i said before was based on the flying saucer research of the germans). The Avorcar failed because they didn't design it right with the german design plans. And they trashed the whole idea because they thought they could make a better type of 'stealth' fighter plane.

 

Well i only have a bunch of documentaries that i found on the subject, some video footage of the avorcar, and lots of sketch plans. And lots of 'heresay'.
Well it's good that you admit a lot of your 'evidence' is from hearsay, although I think you can add most of the info in the documentaries into the 'hearsay' category as well.

Would convincing evidence be something like Authentic military documents?
Yes, as long as they were authentic. There are quite a few 'copies' of so called military documents around that are probably fakes. A lot of people around with too much time on their hands.

As for the whole avorcar thing failing, the whole 'rumour' behind the history of the military flying saucers is that just recently the military of America has made fully functioning, mach 1 flying saucers. They're just hiding it from us like they did the stealth bomber (which as i said before was based on the flying saucer research of the germans).
Well you admit the new working flying saucer is just a rumor. Well it's one I've not heard, so you won't mind if I don't start singing about it until I'm convinced. And there you go again. Saying that stealth technology is based on German WW2 flying saucer research. No evidence. And it took over 40 years to develop the stealth bomber when they had the initial development in the mid 1940's? I really think that I don't want to visit you on your planet.

The Avorcar failed because they didn't design it right with the german design plans. And they trashed the whole idea because they thought they could make a better type of 'stealth' fighter plane.
"They didn't design it right with the german design plans." (proof??) or the technology it was based on was flawed? Either way I have yet to see any connection with so called Nazi flying saucers and the experimental Avrocar. I must be blind.

 

What a debate you guys are having. I think the nazis usin ufo's for test flights could be possible.

 

They're just hiding it from us like they did the stealth bomber (which as i said before was based on the flying saucer research of the germans).

If you are refering to the B2 Stealth bomber, then i am afraid to say that it is based upon flying-wing technology, which America was one of the leading figures.

The B35 flying wing was ordered back in 1943, long before America had access to either German Technicans or research.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/bombers/b3-67.htm

 

If you are refering to the B2 Stealth bomber, then i am afraid to say that it is based upon flying-wing technology, which America was one of the leading figures.

The B35 flying wing was ordered back in 1943, long before America had access to either German Technicans or research.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/bombers/b3-67.htm

I'm refering to ones like the F-117 Nighthawk.


The ones with a pyramid like shape.

But according to many of my documentaries on this subject, it said that the ones with flying wing technology


That sort of look like a ragged cut end of pie if you will are also deprived from the early flying saucer creation attempts. (B2 Stealth bomber ^)



Design of the German Horten Brothers during WW II ^

Here's a reference link: http://keyholepublishing.com/UFO%20Secrecy%20and%20the%20Death%20of%20the%20American%20Republic%20-%20Richard%20Dolan.htm

Soviet? American? Other?
Were these objects of Soviet origin, developed perhaps with the aid of captured German scientists – some of whom were indeed experimenting with disk-shaped planforms? This possibility was investigated, and rejected. Today, years later, there is still no evidence that the Soviets invented "flying saucers" after World War Two.
Design of the German Horten Brothers during WW II
What about the Americans? They captured their own cache of German scientists, after all. One can speculate on the possibility that some breakthrough was made in the immediate post-World War Two years, in deep secrecy, as a result of purely terrestrial science.
But there are several problems with this theory, as well. First, the documentation that we have indicates serious efforts on anti-gravity commencing in the mid-1950s. If anything started sooner within the United States, we have no documentary evidence. That is not to say it didn’t happen, but there are no documents to show it.
Nor would it seem logical that this was a deep black American program, at least when viewing the confrontational nature of some of these encounters. The 1951 pilot encounter cited above, for instance, or the many intrusions over military bases and research centers, don’t make sense as a secret American project, at least not on the face of it.
Unless, of course, you speculate that a rogue human group obtained radically advanced technology; a group beyond the control of official militaries and governments. I can’t prove this, but is it possible? Of course.
That, frankly, seems to be the conservative interpretation, and it’s not exactly conservative. Then there is the more radical interpretation, which is that this technology wasn’t human in origin at all.
Either way, this was clearly a serious matter to serious people. H. Marshall Chadwell, for instance, who was the CIA’s Deputy Director of Scientific Intelligence. By 1952, when UFO sightings were getting rather out of hand, and not just the public but military personnel were encountering these things with incredible frequency, we can imagine the concern that was generated at high levels. Only a handful of documents and statements have come down to us from that period: some books, a few reports and memos.
One of them, however, speaks volumes. It’s a brief document, prepared by Chadwell for his boss, CIA Director Walter Bedell Smith. It was dated December 2, 1952. Chadwell was careful. He didn’t come out and say, "boss, we’re being invaded." Here is the relevant paragraph:
"At this time, the reports of incidents convince us that there is something going on that must have immediate attention....Sightings of unexplained objects at great altitudes and travelling at high speeds in the vicinity of major U.S. defense installations are of such nature that they are not attributable to natural phenomena or known types of aerial vehicles."
Not natural phenomena, not known types of vehicles, and not (apparently) U.S. manufactured. It didn’t appear to be Soviet. So what does that leave you with? No matter what the answer, this was clearly a matter of grave concern to the decision-makers of U.S. defense and intelligence policy.
With that in mind, we can assume that the public statements, repeated over and over (flying saucers exist only in the imagination, nothing to them, all hoaxes or misidentifications, etc.) were intentional acts of deception. You can defend this lying if you choose. Maybe the government was trying to prevent mass panic, or hide their knowledge of this from the Soviets.
But before you draw that conclusion, let us continue. And while we continue, I suggest you try to retain the image in your mind of an enormous reality that has continuously been denied by America’s responsible leaders. Like a big sleeping bear in the corner of your dining room that no one is allowed to acknowledge. Just sit quietly and eat your dinner.

 

You're talking rubbish again. As has been pointed out, the B2 is from a design in the US in 1943 and the F117 was designed when radar scientists discovered that a diamon shape produced less of a radar signature than a square... and that was late 1970s. Swans have wings, do you think they were developed from Flying Saucers too?

Your little idea that everything had to be developed from Nazi Flaying Saucers is becoming very tiresome now. Either get some actual evidence or just give up and keep your little fantasy to yourself..

 

Don't tell the TRUST from Stargate SG1 actually exists!

The passage that you printed does not actually say that they were German designed, built or even influenced.

Even, if this document quoted below is to be believed , then as late as Nov 1947, the Americans did not know of the whereabouts of the Horton bros.

http://www.nicap.dabsol.co.uk/schulgen.htm

 

Your little idea that everything had to be developed from Nazi Flaying Saucers is becoming very tiresome now. Either get some actual evidence or just give up and keep your little fantasy to yourself..

Ok, I am positive that the F-117 Nighthawk was deprived from the whole avorcar project, which was deprived from the nazi saucers plans. That, I know is fact. If you disagree, you can blame the History Channel, SciFi Channel, and Discovery Channel for filling my mind with false information.

As for my other explanations on things, I'm working on it..

I already found some documents tracing back to nazi germany, and russia. And documents from the 50s and 60s from america. And I have also obtained some design plans (which look authentic).

 

Ok, I am positive that the F-117 Nighthawk was deprived from the whole avorcar project, which was deprived from the nazi saucers plans. That, I know is fact. If you disagree, you can blame the History Channel, SciFi Channel, and Discovery Channel for filling my mind with false information.

Okay, so YOU are positive. But what connection does the F117 have with the Avrocar?

Can I a make a suggestion. When you see something on TV, even if it calls itself serious and profeses to be showing history, science or facts, stop. Pause for a moment and ask yourself if it actually is fact. Because if you go through life taking what you are told at face value and don't question things before telling everyone that they are the facts, you are at best going to look rediculous and at worst get yourself into serious trouble.

Now in placing the blame for believing what might not be true, you named "History Channel, SciFi Channel, and Discovery Channel" as the offenders. Did you not think that the name "SiFi Channel" might not have been a little clue as to the standard of facts revealed? I mean, if you are going to show nothing but factual programes, why call yourself the Science Fiction Channel?

 

Here are a bunch of documents I found:


More pictures of these crafts:



Probably the most misunderstood and problematic of all terrestrial-based disc technology lies at the heart of the German disc programs that started with the birth of the NSDAP (Nazi Party) in 1920- a full thirteen years before Adolf Hitler came to power as the leader of the Third Reich. To fully comprehend the depth of these programs requires the knowledge that above all else the NSDAP was founded from the onset by the occult Thule (1917) and Vril (1919) Gesellschafts (Societies), and other occult groups like the DHvSS (Men of the Black Stone) that stretched back to the turn of the twentieth century with the Old German Order (a.k.a. Order of Teutons). As such, the very first disc project built in Germany...(read more to see all photos)


... in 1922 was not even an aircraft but an inter-dimensional flight machine in disc form-the JenseitsFlugMaschine (JFM) built by Thule-Vril using secret business member funding.



When Adolf Hitler (a Thule member along with Goering, Himmler, and various other top Nazi officials) became chancellor of Germany in 1933 the eleven year occult metaphysical science of Thule-Vril became strengthened by official state backing for the continued disc development programs starting with an RFZ (RundFlugZeug), or "Round Aircraft" series of discs that utilized levitators developed by W.O. Schumann of the Technical University of Munich who worked on the mysterious JFM from 1922-24.




1934 saw the first RFZ discs built, RFZ units 1-3. The first RFZ series utilized the Schumann levitators, but often with disastrous results.




The very first disc, RFZ-1 rose very briefly only to 60 meters before losing control. Pilot Lothar Waiz, testing the machine at Arado-Brandenburg, quickly bailed from the spinning disc whose Ar 196 controls and tail unit failed to function causing the machine to spin out of control and crash into the ground. Not to be discouraged the RFZ-2 was built the same year and achieved a measure of success. This was a small armed disc with two MG that was used in 1940 for recon over the British Isles and in the South Atlantic with a rendezvous with the German raider Atlantis in 1942.




The RFZ 3,4, and 6 were all prototypes that grew larger and more powerful in each subsequent model. They were built from 1934-1940. The RFZ-5 was renamed Haunebu in 1939 with the RFZ-7 becoming the Vril-1 Jager in 1941. These highly advanced disc aircraft were overseen by Himmler's SS- specifically, the SS Technical Branch Unit E-IV (Entwicklungsstelle 4) which was created to explore various alternative energies. This unit was tasked with developing both the Haunebu and Vril disc designs that utilized the world's first electro-magnetic-gravitic drive systems: the Vril and Thule Triebwerks.

These drives relied on Hans Coler's free energy Konverter coupled to a Van De Graaf band generator and Marconi vortex dynamo (a huge spherical tank of mercury) to create powerful rotating electromagnetic fields that affected gravity. Many have often inquired "why" then when war started in 1939 did Germany not use these advanced and unique machines in air combat? The simple truth lies in the fact that these machines, despite their superior overall performance to conventional piston-engined aircraft and early jets, could not be realistically adapted to any useful military role other than the most basic transport and recon work.

http://www.para-normal.com/news/jun/25e.jpg

The strong electromagnetic engines were difficult to control and required a complex celestial navigation system to fly. While maximum speed and range were incredible for the time, the flight characteristics of the discs could not hope to imitate high-performance fighters like the Me Bf 109 or Fw 190. There was very little room for either offensive or defensive armament in these designs except for a few experimental light MG and MK cannons that proved impractical in flight and a rather large experimental Donar (Thunder) Kraftstrahlkanone (Strong Jet Cannon).

http://www.para-normal.com/news/jun/25f.jpg

These guns tended to destabilize the discs badly and were eventually removed or replaced with lighter automated guns. The disc bodies themselves were not capable of carrying any ordnance at all internally or externally (no bombs, rockets, or missiles) and could make only turns of 22.5, 45, and 90 degrees.





Nevertheless, the SS pursued an aggressive policy of theft, forced cooperation, and strong internal development of these types of machines due to the increasing Allied bombing offensive that made conventional aircraft take-offs and landings highly dangerous. VTOL was seen as the logical solution to this problem. If the SS could develop a production machine that in the future could be armed (with cannon, missiles, or even an electrostatic weapon) then Germany might be able to turn the air war.




To shorten the time of finding VTOL solutions, the SS robbed both Germany's patent office and every patent office in occupied Europe.

Those with aeronautical skill enough to contribute to the SS effort were either arrested or coerced into participating in the programs- among them Viktor Schauberger of Austria and Henri Coanda of Rumania. The SS also used its large slave labor force to assist in construction of large underground facilities for these discs and often for production of components to these machines.

Though the SS requested additional slave laborers from Armaments Minister Albert Speer, Speer himself was not told what war projects the laborers would be used for; indeed, Speer was deliberately kept out of the entire SS disc development programs for security reasons and the fact that the SS was a state-within-a-state with its own production facilities, war material, scientists and technicians, slave workforce, and the knowledge of secret Third Reich military bases outside Germany where the discs were both tested and stored.

Among those held, Viktor Schauberger became the leader of most interest due to his highly unconventional use of liquid vortex technology which was perfected while he was in custody at Mauthausen. Originally designed for an odd bio-submarine, the strange Repulsin discoid motors were to be adapted to aircraft.




Heinkel was the first to receive the early results of the discoid motor tests but refused to act on it in the same way the Luftwaffe refused to act on Heinkel's flight of its first jet aircraft, the He 178, three days before the start of WW2.

A year after the Repulsin Model A motor was being studied one of Heinkel's own engineers named Rudolf Schriever proposed his own "Flugkreisel" (Flying Gyro) that utilized conventional jet engines instead of the Repulsin discoid motor. His design was taken from him by the SS and handed over to a team of scientists for further study and construction of a large flying prototype, The team consisted of Dr. Richard Miethe, Klaus Habermohl, and Dr.Guiseppe Belluzzo who had come up with his own design for a jet powered round flying bomb- the Turboproietti.

Meanwhile, BMW (who was to provide the turbojets for Heinkel's jets) started work on a design very similar to Schriever's Flugkreisel but utilizing the company's own BMW 003 jet engines. These machines, called "Flugelrads" (Winged Wheels) were not true disc aircraft but jet autogyros that used a standard BMW 003 with a Strahlrohr (Jet pipe) deflector to power a multi-blade disc rotor.




These craft were built on a much smaller scale than Schriever's Flugkreisel so work proceeded from 1941-45 with construction of prototypes beginning in 1943. Instability, however, was never really solved in the earlier designs. Only one disc, a BMW Flugelrad II V-2 (or V-3) possibly achieved flight in April 1945. Schriever's own design began to take shape in 1942 and flew in 1943. It flew under jet power provided by three attached special kerosene-burning engines driving the disc rotor as well as two kerosene jets attached to the body for forward thrust and horizontal stability.


Flight characteristics were said to be good but then the SS decided to abruptly drop Schriever's jet-fan design in favor of Miethe's version that eliminated the large disc rotor blades driven by jet engines for Schauberger's liquid vortex engine, but on a larger scale. With Schauberger released back to Austria in 1944 by the SS, the Miethe prototype took to the air the same year over the Baltic. It's resemblance to the Repulsin Model B was unmistakable except for the addition of a bubble cockpit on top and water drainage (bleed) pipes to the rear of the craft instead of at the bottom. At the same time a private venture with official backing from Air Ministry General Udet was taking shape in Leipzig. Arthur Sack who caught the attention of Udet way back in 1939 with his A.S.1 circular wing flying aero model was given permission and some funding to build a manned large-scale version of his model. Sack took up the challenge and built four more models of increasing size.

When the A.S.5 demonstrated that the basic concept was sound construction began on the manned version in early 1944- the A.S.6. Within a month the strange largely wooden aircraft utilizing salvaged parts from a Me Bf 108 was taxiing and making attempts to fly. But this project was doomed from the start with an underpowered engine and plagued by structural problems which meant that the aircraft could "hop"- but never fly.


Due to round-the-clock bombing the SS was forced to try even more drastic measures, launching unmanned interceptor discs from the Schwarzwald. These discs were known as the "Feuerball" weapon, sometimes erroneously referred to as the mystery V-7 weapon (of which there never was an official designation). The WNF Feuerball relied on a rocket motor for launch, a plume sensor for aerial detection, and an electrostatic field weapon invented at Messerschmitt's Oberammergau facility for attack.

Production of these craft was initially performed by WNF under SS direction. Because the discs burned chemicals around its ring to create the electrostatic field necessary to disable Allied bomber engines and radar the object was soon nicknamed the "Foo Fighter" by the Allies who sighted this fiery halo weapon approaching them by day or night. "Foo" was a take on the French word Feu (Fire) and from the Smokey Stover comic of a bumbling fireman that actually started fires!

Naturally, WNF observed the burning effect too and soon nicknamed their weapon the WNF Feuerball (Fireball). The "Feuerballs" plagued the 415th NFS from November 1944 to April 1945. By that time production had been shifted to the Zeppelin Werk that nicknamed their enlarged improved weapon as the "Kugelblitz" (Ball Lightning). The Allies seemed confused by these weapons which ranged in size from small to large and attacked in singles or multiples.

The Germans added to this confusion by introducing two OTHER weapons with the Feuerball/Kugelblitz- the "Seifenblasen" and "Kugelwaffen". "Seifenblasen" (Soap Bubbles) were large meteorological balloons trailing metal strips that confused Allied radar. Their large round shape and metallic coating reflected in daylight gave them the appearance of a shining globe mistaken for a Feuerball. Along with the Seifenblasen were launched purely spherical aerial probes that were used as psychological weapons. These "Kugelwaffen" (Ball Weapons) played aerial games with the Allied bomber gunners that would have in time distracted them from the real threat of larger approaching Kugelblitz discs.

But by the spring of 1945 the war was lost regardless and most of the remaining programs were halted. Henri Coanda had been arrested in Paris in 1940 and forced to work on a disc under SS supervision. His design for a lenticular disc that benefited from his own "Coanda Effect" was a masterpiece of jet disc design.

But because it required twelve Jumo 004 jets to power the huge machine the project never got past the wind tunnel testing phase. Likewise, Andreas Epps independent Omega Diskus which utilized two Pabst ramjets and eight Argus lift fans was also confined to 1/10th scale model testing. Dr. Alexander Lippisch had also studied disc aerodynes back in 1941 but was too involved in the Me 153 Komet and DM-1 delta glider programs to produce anything more than brief design concepts based on the Gottingen K 1253 circular wing profile. The Horten brother, experts with flying wings, also studied circular wing designs but did not actually work on any in Nazi Germany. They did so for the US Govt. postwar in late 1945-46 producing what is now believed to be the craft that crashed at Roswell in 1947- a spy craft parabolic lifting body carried by a large meteorological balloon.

In the face of imminent defeat BMW destroyed all their Flugelrads and possibly Schriever's Flugkreisel which was testing at the same facility. Miethe's disc may have been captured as Miethe went to Canada postwar to work on AVRO's disc designs. Habermohl was captured by the Russians while Dr. Belluzzo went back to Italy. Schauberger's Repulsins were captured by the Allies while most of the SS Technical Branch records still intact were captured by the British who postwar attempted to create a working design through AVRO Canada with eventual US assistance.

One very little known Peenemunde disc project under Henrich Fleissner was the last disc to take off from Berlin in late April 1945 on an official mission. But details of the "Dusenscheibe" (Nozzle Disc) remain clouded in mystery.

Meanwhile, the Feuerball attacks that stopped in April 1945 in Germany resumed in August 1945 in Japan- an obvious technology transfer from Germany to Japan via U-boat. The Japanese, however, lacked all the documentation for this weapon and only launched a few. It is said that the Japanese were frightened by this "demonic thing" and destroyed the remaining Feuerballs by dynamiting them in a pit. Photographic evidence also seems to identify "Kugelwaffen" sent to Japan as several are seen trailing Sally bombers, probably for flight testing.

But the Third Reich story ends as strangely as it had begun. What about the mysterious Thule-Vril discs which were actually built in small numbers? By 1945 there were quite a few Haunebu II and Vril 7 discs flying. Vril had even tested the Vril 8 Odin and possibly even the more streamlined Vril 9 Abjager. These craft were not destroyed but evacuated from March 1945 to an area safe from Allied bombing or capture.

In the year preceding the start of WW2 Germany sent an expedition to Antarctica to scout out a location for a military base there. The Germans found such a location in the former Queen Maud Land which Germany renamed Neu Schwabenland. There, in secret during 1942-43, a base was built in the Muhlig-Hoffman Mountains. Base 211 (or Station 211). The base was supplied with slave laborers shipped by sea and U-boats to construct an elaborate cave complex deep within the mountains- an impregnable fortress. Hot internal springs were found there, iron ore deposits, vegetation, and access was achieved primarily through an underwater trench that ran through the area.

During the war, especially the latter part, German U-boats made frequent trips to the South Atlantic, South America, and Antarctica. Germany also set up floating meteorological buoys in Antarctic waters and weather stations on islands located between Antarctica and the tip of South America. The SS RuSHA (Rasse und SeidlungsHauptAmt- Race and Settlement Bereau) began in 1942 to take women of Aryan decent (Volksdeutsch) from the Ukraine solely for the purpose of transporting them to Base 211.

Ten thousand women between the ages of 17-24, blonde and well proportioned, were recruited for the project along with 2,500 Waffen SS soldiers serving in Russia. The goal of this massive undertaking was to create a colony at Base 211 suitable for the habitation and continued development of the Thule-Vril technology. It is believed that both the Thule and Vril Gesellschafts evacuated that technology to Base 211 at the close of the war under SS General Kammler, who was in charge of Germany's most secret weapons programs. Two U-boats that surrendered after the war in Argentina are also believed to have carried cargo and high-ranking SS to Base 211. Both boats were empty upon surrender with the crews refusing to disclose their cargos and destinations.

It became apparent in 1946 that 54 U-boats and over 6,000 technicians and scientists were "missing" from Germany- especially from the SS Technical Branch.

There were also 40,000 slave laborers and between 142,000-250,000 German citizens unaccounted for. Despite simply writing these off as probable losses and deaths of the war, Washington suspected that a large number of these missing actually escaped to South America and Base 211 (if such a base existed). The United States then went on the hunt using the "war criminal" propaganda to cover up the search for technology akin to a South American version of "Operation Paperclip".

The United States was so concerned about the secret base that in 1947 with the first Antarctic summer "Operation Highjump" was launched with a full military task force headed by Admiral Byrd. The task force was to head straight for Neu Schwabenland and recon the area for a base. If one was found 4,700 armed troops would have been sent to capture or destroy it. The task force performed the aerial recon, trailing magnetometers to detect any magnetic anomalies under the ice... but several of Byrd's planes were lost. The aircraft had run into enemy opposition.

"Operation Highjump" ended in failure as Byrd headed back after several weeks, far short of the eight months that was intended. In his unofficial comments to the South American press Byrd stated that he was attacked by "enemy aircraft that could fly from pole to pole at incredible speed". Subsequently, the modern UFO phenomenon sprang up in 1947 and concentrated disc development programs were initiated in the 1950s that have continued on to present-day "black project" aircraft operated by the CIA, NSA, and NRO. So the story of the Third Reich disc programs does not end with the collapse of the Third Reich itself.

It continues unresolved...

para-normal.com
<big><big><big>CONCLUSIONS???</big></big></big>

<small>Face to the elements previously described it can be questioned, which my opinion on the subject?</small>
<small>Well then!</small>
<small> I think that:</small>
<b><big>I</big><small> - </small><small>Eventually, one day the TRUTH will be known in all its real dimension and that probably the history of Europe in the XX century will be modernized;</small></b>
<b><big>II</big><small> - </small><small>At level</small>aeronautical,</b>
<small> 1. - </small><small>certain European countries </small><small>had a high technological development</small><small> wrapped up in secretly. So, the attentions on the subject were deviated by a group of people, that was considered descending of a " </small><small> superior " race, covered with convulsions, war and fortuitous violence.</small>
<small> 2. - </small><small>the German technological development was made PARALLELLY at three levels</small><small>:</small>
<small> a)</small><small>a, visible ", with using</small><small> conventional " airships " (for us well-known), used up to 1945, moved with dirty " fuels ";</small>
<small> b)</small><small>at a second level, translucent ", with drawn conventional " airships " and conceived for a postwar " period " using </small><small>"dirty energy ";</small>
<small> c)</small><small>finally, at an invisible " level ", with the production of "anti-gravitational</small><small> airships",</small><small> that using cheap and " clean " fuel, just </small><small>a few people</small><small> had access.</small>
<b><big>III </big><small>- </small><small>At level of the "UFOLOGY", to be true the fact of having terrified an </small><small>alien </small><small>object in the </small><small>Black Forest in</small><small> 1936, </small><small>and to the posterior implications </small><small>for the technological development</small><small> of</small><small> </small><big>VRIL</big><small>, </small><big>HAUNEBU</big><small>, </small><big>RFZ</big><small>, </small><big>THULE</big><small> or</small><small> </small><big>ANDROMEDA</big><small>, </small><small>it becomes still more comprehensible the reason why some witness of the </small><small>UFO phenomenon , describes </small><small> that its " pilots " has</small><small> small stature, with big heads and almond-shaped eyes</small><small> ( "greys") </small><small>" accompanied ", with some regularity, for </small><small>"others" with</small><small> human aspect </small><small>( identical characteristics to the one of the Nordic " people ", with hair and clear eyes).</small></b>
<b><big>IV </big><small>-</small><small>Finally I think</small><small> that the secret almost involves all the investigations of the UFO phenomenon, done by state departments especially created by</small><small> the governments of several countries, presupposes that will be to work with a real, tangible fact, </small><small>but they</small><small> don't know how</small><small> </small><small>to </small><small>justify it </small><small>!</small></b>

If everything is a lie, why the reason to hide the facts?

But if its authenticity is real, why they lie?
For how long, the future will continue to be a big one
?














Flying saucers: The future of aviation? Continued...

From www.exn.ca/FlightDeck.
quote:

If Mike Walden has his way, solar powered `flying saucers' will cease to be the stuff of science fiction.

The 45-year-old aerospace and computer engineer has designed and built giant `saucers' that are powered by solar energy, driven by large electric fans and filled with helium.

He claims one day his aircraft will provide aerial tours of attractions like the Grand Canyon and the Alaska glaciers without creating any of the pollution or noise of traditional aircraft.




Those of us who frequent the
Aliens & UFOs forum have heard of Nazi Germany's research in flying saucers.
From Unreal Aircraft
quote:


There are recurring tales of the development of disc-shaped aircraft by the German Reich during World War 2. Although some researchers have found, on diligent examination, that the stories tend to have originated post-WW2, and in fact post 1947, when American private pilot Kenneth Arnold reported his string of unidentified flying objects "skipping like saucers" through the air near Mt. Ranier, Washington, enthusiasts are not deterred.

Furthermore, the accounts given between 1950 and 1957 by Schreiver, Belluzzo (or Bellonzo) and Miethe, three of the four engineers supposedly responsible for the "Schriever, Habermohl, Miethe and Bellonzo Flying Disc" are said not to support each other. Each alleged participant gives different information, individually taking the lead in being responsible for what was achieved, and none of them state that they worked with the other three. Essentially, all claim to have been responsible for an assortment of different disc programmes, at a variety of different locations, testing and flying their different discs.




Take a look at this Russian “Flying Saucer”
From Мануфактурный вестник Mosnews.com
quote:


You might not have to go to New Mexico to see a UFO — flying saucers are coming to your home skies, thanks to Russian aircraft designers. The U.S. Naval Air Systems Command has signed an agreement with Russia’s EKIP Aviation concern to cooperate in the production of unique flying saucer-shaped aircraft developed in Russia, perfect for putting out forest fires and monitoring oil pipelines.

Originally developed in 1992, the alien-looking aircraft failed to secure funding from the Russian government. Twelve years later, the U.S. and China are very interested in making it work.



And more on the Russian disks from wired.com

quote:
Citizens of Patuxent River, Maryland, do not be alarmed. When you see a flying saucer overhead sometime in 2007, it will not be a sign of alien attack.

Instead, the strange craft in the skies will mean that the Russians are finally here -- with a little help from the U.S. Navy.

For more than two decades, engineers at a former Soviet aerospace plant have been toiling on a drone aircraft that looks a whole lot like a prop from Plan 9 From Outer Space. But financial woes have frozen progress on the pita-bread-shaped, stubby-winged, wheel-less, unmanned ship, dubbed the Ekip (short for ecology and progress).

Momentum on the project may pick up again soon, however. After an introduction from an American congressman, the Ekip's designers at the Saratov Aviation Plant have a new partner: the U.S. Naval Air Systems Command, or NAVAIR, which has agreed to join in the development of the unorthodox drone over the next several years. Test flights are tentatively scheduled for 2007 at Webster Field, near Patuxent River.

The initial prototype will be only 500 pounds -- just a speck compared with the 12-ton craft that Saratov claims to have successfully test flown in the early 1990s.



Like I've said before, I am no aviation expert, but the more I look the more I get the impression that we will be using flying saucers in our future.


From Above Top Secret Message board.

 

the flying wing

nothing is new under the sun
Early studies of delta wings led aircraft designers to ask if an entire airplane could consist only of a wing, with basically no fuselage whatsoever. Such all-wing aircraft would have excellent payload and range capabilities because they would produce less drag than a conventional aircraft. This was true because the tail and fuselage normally cause a significant amount of drag. Eliminate the tail and fuselage and you have eliminated a great deal of drag, enhanced performance, reduced the amount of fuel required, and generally improved the handling capabilities of the airplane. These so-called flying wing designs were long a dream of a number of designers but did not become practical until recently. The biggest problem found when building a flying wing aircraft is that such designs are inherently unstable and they do not easily stay level in flight.
When the newest American super-bomber, the Northrop B-2, was revealed to the public at Palmdale, California on November22, 1988, many aviation history enthusiasts must have noted that the configuration selected by the aircraft’s designers, namely that of the “flying wing,” had been resurrected from the dead, as it were. Although present day experience has shown that the all-wing configuration is the best one for avoiding detection by enemy radar (aided by the latest technology in materials, electronics and computers), the same configuration has been in practical use since about 1930. The first jet. powered all-wing aircraft flew in Germany on February 2, 1945, and at the time was also virtually undetectable by radar, partly on account of its mixed construction (wooden wings). In the United States, John Knudsen Northrop had been working on all-wing aircraft since the end of the 1920s. His first aircraft of this configuration (although it did employ two small vertical tail fins on thin tail booms) was the “Flying Wing,” which flew in 1929. Because of poor economic conditions during the 1930s, Northrop’s twin-engined all-wing N1M did not appear until 1940, and the N9M until 1942.
Individual projects were undertaken in various countries, but in the Soviet Union there were numerous attempts, some of them very promising, to learn the secrets of the all-wing aircraft. The most successful Soviet designer was Boris Ivanovich Chernanovski, who developed a series of projects from 1921 to 1940.
In Germany, the Horten brothers, Reimar and Walter, had in mind a pure all-wing aircraft with no vertical control surfaces of any kind. Inspired by the Stork and Delta-type tailless aircraft of Alexander Lippisch, they began their work at the end of the 1920s. Successful flight tests of their first tailless glider were carried out at Bonn-Hangelar airfield in July 1933. By 1934 they were working at Germany’s “Gliding Mecca,” the Wasserkuppe. The all-wing concept had achieved its first practical success. Although development of the all-wing aircraft began at about the same time in Germany, the Soviet Union and America, there was no collaboration whatsoever between designers. In spite of this, design teams in these widely- separated parts of the world were convinced that the all-wing aircraft was the best configuration and pursued the idea with much idealism.
It is no wonder, therefore, that the concept has been revived in the present day. The Northrop “Flying Wings” and the twin-engined Horten H V, H VII and H IX aircraft can in a way be considered the forerunners of the B-2. The H V was a pure research aircraft equipped with two counter-rotating pusher propellers. The H IX was designed as a twin-engined, turbojet fighter-bomber, and the H VII, also with two pusher propellers, was intended to serve as a trainer for jet aircraft.

Horten Va
The H Va was built in 1936/37 in cooperation ith the Dynamit AG in Troisdorf, near Cologne. synthetic material (Trolitax) were used in the aircraft’s construction. Use of this material resulted in a series of problems, even though the glider HoL’s der TeufeL had previously been built using this method. Several of the solutions to these problems were patented by the Dynamit company. The nose of the H V was covered in clear Cellon, and the two pilots occupied prone positions. The aircraft was fitted with a tricycle undercarriage with faired main members (only the nosewheel was retractable), and the two Hirth HM.60-R engines drove two-bladed pusher propellers directly (no extension shafts). The propeller manufacturer Peter Kiimpel produced the propellers from Lignofol (beech wood impregnated with synthetic resin). The H Va introduced novel movable wingtip control surfaces.


The aircraft’s only flight took place at Bonn-Hangelar in early 1937. In the aircraft were Walter and Reimar Horten. The extreme aft location of the engines made the aircraft unstable, and at its low takeoff speed the aircraft’s controls were unable to overcome the resulting tail-heaviness at the moment of rotation. The H Va became air-borne briefly, then crashed, damaging the aircraft seriously. The injuries sustained by the two men were relatively minor (Walter Horten knocked out his two upper front teeth). Following the accident the Dynamit AG collected the remains of the H Va to carry out tests on the materials used in its construction.

Horten V b, W-NT. 9
The H Vb was a research aircraft built at Cologne-Ostheim using conventional construction methods (wood and steel tube) on instructions from Major Dinort with the approval of Ernst Udet. As a result of the accident with the H Va, the movable wingtip controls were dispensed with and the designers turned to more conventional elevons. The Hirth engines of the unlucky H Va were used again, but were positioned further forward and drove their propellers via short extension shafts, resulting in a more favourable weight distribution. The H Yb’s pilots sat upright next to each other and were provided with individual raised canopies. Like the H Va, the H Yb had a fixed tricycle undercarriage. The aircraft’s first flight took place at Cologne-Ostheim in autumn 1937 with Walter Horten at the controls. From the beginning of the war in 1939 until 1941 the aircraft was parked in the open at Potsdam-Werder airfield, which was not altogether beneficial for an aircraft built largely of wood.

Ho Vb
Horten Vc, W-Nr. 27
Efforts by the Luftwaffe-Inspektion 3 (Lln 3, or uftwaffe Inspectorate for Fighters, whose Technical Department Head was Walter Horten) succeeded in convincing GeneralflugzeugmetsteT Ernst Udet that it was advisab1e to return the H V to flying status. In August 1941 a special detachment of Lln 3 was formed in Minden to oversee the reconstruction of the aircraft by the Peschke Firm. Peschke, a former WW I fighter pilot, had established a flying school at Hangelar and later an aircraft repair facility at Minden.
The latter facility repaired aircraft such as the Fw 44 Stieglitz, He 72 Kadett, Fi 156 Storch and the RK Schwalbe. Peschke and the Horten brothers knew each other from Hangelar. In charge of the Lln 3 detachment was Luftwaffe Leutnant Reimar Horten. His team consisted of three designing engineers and five other men, including Heinz Scheidhauer, an experienced all-wing glider specialist. Later the special detachment was moved to Göttingen and enlarged to thirty men (soldiers, engineers, craftsmen and so on).
The Horten Vc was converted from the H V b, which had been badly damaged by the elements. In Minden the two-seat H Vb became a single-seat aircraft. The pilot was accommodated in a normal eated position. The H Va’s Hirth engines were retained, as were its steel tube and wood construction and fixed undercarriage. As property of the military, it was finished in standard Luftwaffe camouflage and was assigned the code PE + HO (PE for Peschke and HO for Horten).
The H Vc made its first flight on May 26, 1942. Walter Horten later flew the machine to Göttingen, where LuftwaffenkommafldO IX was being formed. Flugkapitän Prof. Dr. Josef Stüper, then Director of the Instituts fur Forschungsflugbetrieb und Flugwesen (Institute for Flight Research and Aviation) at the Aerodynamischeti Versuchsanstalt (A VA) Gottingen (Gottingen Aerodynamic Research Institute), carried out test flights in the H Vc. Late in the summer of 1943 an incident occurred involving the H Vc. Stüper took off from the centre of the airfield with the aircraft’s flaps in the down position.
The aircraft’s under-carriage struck the roof of a hangar and the H Vc crashed. Stüper escaped without serious injury, but the aircraft was badly damaged. It was subsequently stored at Göttingen in anticipation of restoration following the end of the war. Events were to prove differently, however, as all of the aircraft held there were assembled at the edge of the airfield and burned following Germany’s surrender. A projected glider tug based on the H Vc was not built.

Ho Vc
Horten VII, W-Nr. 29
Construction of the H VII took place at the Gottingen Bureau. The aircraft’s wings, which were of wooden construction, were built by the Lln 3 workshop, while the centre section, which was of welded tube steel construction with Dural skinning, was manufactured by the Peschke Firm in Minden. The aircraft made its first flight in May 1943 with Heinz Scheidhauer and Walter Horten on board. The aircraft had originally been conceived as a flying test-bed for the Argus-Schmidt pulse- jet engine after the H V had proved unsuitable for the role. When this plan was abandoned it was proposed as a fighter training aircraft.
The H VII was powered by two Argus AS-b-C engines driving two-bladed constant-speed propellers via extension shafts. The aircraft featured a fully retractable twin nosewheel under-carriage. So-called “wingtip rudders” were used in place of a conventional rudder. The aircraft was assigned the RLM-Number 8-226. The aircraft’s pilots were Heinz Scheidhauer, Erwin Ziller and Walter Horten. In autumn 1944 Oberst Knemeyer demonstrated the H VII to Hermann Goring at Oranienburg, after the Reichsmarschall had expressed a desire to see a Horten aircraft in action. Knemeyer was the RLM flight-test chief and was favourably disposed toward the aircraft developed by the Horten brothers. Goring, a former WW I fighter pilot, had not participated in the later gliding boom and was unfamiliar with the aircraft which emerged from the program.
He wanted to see the aircraft fly on one engine, which Heinz Scheidhauer did without any hesitation. The Reichsmarschall was impressed; the Peschke Firm received an order for twenty examples. Construction of the H VII V2 began in 1944, but the aircraft had not been completed when the war ended. The V3, which was to see the “wingtip rudders” replaced by spoilers above and below the wings, as on the H IX, progressed no farther than the manufacturing of various components. In February 1945 Heinz Scheidhauer flew the H VII to Gottingen. Hydraulic failure prevented him from extending the aircraft’s undercarriage, and he was forced to make a belly landing. The resulting damage had not been repaired when, on April 7, 1945, US troops occupied the airfield. The aircraft presumably suffered the same fate as the H V and was burned.

Ho V11 under final construction
Horten H IX, Werk-Nr.39, 1 944/45
The H IX V2 was a test machine powered by two Jumo 004 turbojets and was assigned the RLM number 8-229. It was the world’s first turbojet-powered all-wing aircraft. The V2 had a fully retractable undercarriage and was unarmed. The pilot was accommodated in a conventional seated position.

The Ho IX V2 under construction in a 3 car garage
Serious difficulties and delays in construction arose when the planned BMW 003 engines had to be replaced by more powerful Jumo 004s. The diameter of the Junkers engine was greater than that of the BMW product, requiring redesign of the engine bays. Like its predecessors, the aircraft was of mixed construction. The V2’s undercarriage consisted of the tailwheel from a wrecked He 177 bomber, which was used as nose-wheel, and the main undercarriage from a Bf 109 fighter.
The first test flight was made from Oranienburg on February 2, 1945, with Leutnant Erwin Ziller at the controls, and lasted about 30 minutes. The Horten brothers had known Ziller from the competitions at the Wasserkuppe. Ziller had familiarized himself with all-wing aircraft in December 1944 and January 1945, making several flights in the Horten H IX Vi glider (an He 111 served as glider tug) and the twin-engined Horten H VII at Oranienburg.
Ziller spent the last three days of December 1944 at Erprobungsstelle Rechlin, where he made a total of five flights in the Me 262. These flights provided Ziller with an opportunity to become familiar with the operation and characteristics of the Jumo 004 turbojet engine. At the end of a second successful test flight on February 3, 1945, Ziller deployed the aircraft’s braking parachute too soon on his landing approach. The result was a hard landing which damaged the aircraft’s main undercarriage. Consequently, the third test flight in the Horten H IX did not take place until February 18, 1945. Returning after about 45 minutes in the air, Ziller was seen to dive the aircraft and pull up several times at an altitude of about 800 meters, apparently in an effort to relight an engine. The undercarriage was lowered unusually early, at an altitude of about 400 meters. The V2’s speed decreased and, accompanied by increasing engine noise, its nose dropped and the aircraft entered a right-hand turn.
The H IX completed a 360 degree turn with its wings banked 20 degrees. It then accelerated and completed a second and third 360 degree turn, the angle of bank increasing all the while. As it began a fourth circle, the aircraft struck the frozen turf beyond the airfield boundary. Walter Rosier was the first Horten employee to reach the crash site, about two-and-a-half minutes after the accident. In his report he stated: “The first thing I saw was the two Junkers engines lying on the other side of the embankment. I could hear the turbine running down in the still-warm left power plant, while there was not a sound from the cooled-off right engine which lay beside it. There was a strong smell of fuel, but no fire. Other than the jet engines and plexiglass cockpit hood, the aircraft had been completely destroyed.
Like the engines, Ziller was ejected from the aircraft on impact. He was thrown against a large tree and killed instantly. Ziller had not used his radio, and had continued to fly the aircraft with an engine out and the undercarriage extended. He did not attempt to use his ejection seat and parachute to safety, and the aircraft’s canopy was not jettisoned. It seems certain that he was attempting to save the valuable aircraft. What had happened? The empty compressed air bottle in the wreckage confirmed that the under-carriage had been lowered with compressed air after a loss of hydraulic power following the failure of an engine.
Had there been a stall, beginning at the right wingtip? Had the test pilot been rendered unconscious and unable to react by carbonising oil from the remaining engine, which had eventually overheated? (There were no bulk-heads separating the cockpit from the engine bays.) Unfortunately, only Leutnant Ziller could have answered these questions, and he had failed to survive. In the opinion of the investigating experts sabotage could not be ruled out.

Horten H IX 113, RLM-Number 8-229
The H IX VS was an unarmed, twin-jet, single-seat aircraft. Further production of the fighter-bomber was assigned to the Gothaer Waggonfabrik (GWF). Well-known for its Go 241 cargo glider, Gotha was considered the company best suited to manufacture Horten aircraft. The aircraft’s turbojet engines were installed splayed 15 degrees left and right of the aircraft centreline and 4 degrees nose down. The new installation was tested in a centre section mock-up. Construction of the H IX V3 was nearly complete when the Gotha Works at Friederichsroda was overrun by troops of the American 3rd Army’s VII Corps on April 14, 1945. The aircraft was assigned the number T2-490 by the Americans.
The aircraft’s official RLM designation is uncertain, as it was referred to as the Ho 229 as well as the Go 229. Also found in the destroyed and abandoned works were several other prototypes in various stages of construction, including a two-seat version. The V3 was sent to the United States by ship, along with other captured aircraft, and finally ended up in the H. H. “Hap” Arnold collection of the Air Force Technical Museum. The all-wing aircraft was to have been brought to flying status at Park Ridge, Illinois, but budget cuts in the late forties and early fifties brought these plans to an end. The V3 was handed over to the present-day National Air and Space Museum (NASM) in Washington D.C.

the remains of the centre-section of the V3 in Maryland
The H XVIII was to be a six engined long-range bomber.

The steel tube centre section was under construction when the works was over-run by the Allies

 

I give up. You just post and quote any dribble you manage to get off the internet without actuall verifying it and much of it obviously has nothing to do with Nazi Flying Saucers.

You are wasting my time and everyone elses. You know my views, so there's no reason for me to post on this subject any more until you can provide proof. I'll post the dictionary definition of the word 'proof' if you don't actually know. maybe that'll help, but I doubt it.

 

I bet you read next to none of it. And i don't need a definition of proof. This is proof enough. Any video footage of military saucers fully operating at their maximum is probably covered up by the CIA for the time being because they probably don't want any crazy al-quadea guys having access to this. Why would everyone talk about this subject if there wasn't some truth behind it. Even the craziest things have truth behind them. Are you saying that scientists like Andreas Epp, Victor Shauberger, and many others who have worked on the nazi saucer project are simply just "lying" about their works?

 

I bet you read next to none of it. And i don't need a definition of proof. This is proof enough. Any video footage of military saucers fully operating at their maximum is probably covered up by the CIA for the time being because they probably don't want any crazy al-quadea guys having access to this. Why would everyone talk about this subject if there wasn't some truth behind it. Even the craziest things have truth behind them. Are you saying that scientists like Andreas Epp, Victor Shauberger, and many others who have worked on the nazi saucer project are simply just "lying" about their works?

There has always been conspiracy theories floating around surrounding UFOs, that whats makes the whole thing tick, that there is some top secret Government organisation dedicated to covering up visits of aliens from outer space.

This biggest logical problem with it all, is the fact if such technology exists then why has it not been adopted for everyday use?

You continuly point o the Gotha GO229 and the connection with the B2 Spirit Stealth bomber. Please remember, both the F117, B2, F22, JSF have all been designed to reduce their radar footage, that is why the B2 have wings that shape not because they were copied from a German design.

The F117 was the source of many "UFO" sightings before it became public, but is design was not based upon German technology but the basic knowledge of redirecting or absorbing radar waves, which was not known in ww2. Lets us also not forget that it is covered in radar absorbent paint.

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/f117/

Just a little stylistic comment, could please try and paste the URL rather than the actual webpage as it distorts the pages on this website.

thanks

 

There has always been conspiracy theories floating around surrounding UFOs, that whats makes the whole thing tick, that there is some top secret Government organisation dedicated to covering up visits of aliens from outer space.

This biggest logical problem with it all, is the fact if such technology exists then why has it not been adopted for everyday use?

You continuly point o the Gotha GO229 and the connection with the B2 Spirit Stealth bomber. Please remember, both the F117, B2, F22, JSF have all been designed to reduce their radar footage, that is why the B2 have wings that shape not because they were copied from a German design.

The F117 was the source of many "UFO" sightings before it became public, but is design was not based upon German technology but the basic knowledge of redirecting or absorbing radar waves, which was not known in ww2. Lets us also not forget that it is covered in radar absorbent paint.

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/f117/

Just a little stylistic comment, could please try and paste the URL rather than the actual webpage as it distorts the pages on this website.

thanks

Yeah, until I can find some evidence proving otherwise, I guess you are correct. I was meaning to post this before, But I thought this was a pretty interesting picture. A man named Kenneth Arnold was flying an american plane around new mexico one day in 1947 and he claims that a flying craft like this:

flew right by him. Any ideas on what that might be?

I also thought this was interesting:

C.I.A. DOCUMENTS REVEAL PERMANENT BRITISH UFO PROJECT
Two new intelligence documents released under the US Freedom of Information Act reveal how the British MoD set up a permanent standing committee to investigate UFOs after the closure of the 'Flying Saucer Working Party.'
They were released with exemptions to Dr David Clarke and Andy Roberts in June 2001 following a successful appeal under the FOIA. Their contents are revealed in our book 'Out of the Shadows' published on 9 May 2002 by Piatkus. We wish to thank CIA historian Gerald Haines for assistance in locating these records.


http://www.flyingsaucery.com/cia/index.htm

 

The FBI reports on Arnold specified that it was nine "diamond shaped" objects that passed him by. The reports also say the incident took place over Cascade Mountain, Washington State.