German Ersatz M10 Panther Tanks - (And the legality of disguised vehicles?)

Just ran across this link to the subject of German Panther tanks disguised as American M-10 TDs. I was thinking what they could have accomplished if they had been more mechanically reliable (most broke down before doing any damage), or not detected. The photos show the lengths the Nazis went to to "mimick" the look of American chassis and such. False front drive "bulges", false exhaust ports, ect., certainly easy to understand how, from any real distance these units would/could have sneaked into the allies armor.

See:

Germans Disguise Panthers, Cleverly Imitate M10 Gun Carriage, WWII Tactical and Technical Trends, No. 57, April 1945 (Lone Sentry)

There were even American helmets and outer wear discovered in the units. I suppose these were all part of "Operation Grief"?

 

Op Grief you may wish to check out the other special operation at the time- Operation Stosser. It was Germany's last major airborne operation of the war involving around 800 paratroopers to be dropped behind the American lines. However it didn't quite go to plan if I remember rightly.

Cheers
Andy


Greif (Gryphon), not grief, although it did come to grief.

Stoesser I don't think has any meaning.

All the best

Andreas

 

I have seen pictures of Australian troops in North Africa with captured Italian M40 tanks. The troops are quite clearly Australian because of the large Kangaroo painted on the tank.

No, no, no, this was Capitano Michaele Corleone trying to pass off as an Ozzie, the silly bugger! Don't mind the picture stamp at bottom left, it's disinformation!!!

 

if i remember rightly, if you had a captured vehicle, as long as it was clearly marked with something that signified nationality (ie, large white stars for american, large black and white crosses for german, red stars for russian) and didn't try to fake it as someone else then you were tech. legal

 

I think the idea was to apply to vehicles the long established rules for ships, showing an enemy (or neutral) flag was considered a valid "ruse de guerre" up to the instant the ship actually opened fire, the German "merchant raiders" and the British Q-Ships followed these rules, and AFAIK nobody ever questioned the legality. The St.Nazaire raid is another WW2 example.
Problem with vehicles is that the insigna is painted so cannot be so easily removed. IIRC the soviets used a column led by captured Pz IIIs to capture a critical bridge during the Stalingrad encirclement, but I have no info on whether they had German markings.
Thecnically those M11/39 are questionable as the kangaroo is not a national flag, but to be in violation they should have retained some sort of italian insigna like the plates and it looks like they were removed.

 

Von Poop
The impression I get is that as the use of captured/disguised stuff is apparently 'legally' acceptable up until the moment shooting to kill breaks out (as implied in those legal notes), then the moment a faked or disguised vehicle opens fire then all of it's crew are in breach of the 'rules of war' ?


TiredOldSoldier
I think the idea was to apply to vehicles the long established rules for ships, showing an enemy (or neutral) flag was considered a valid "ruse de guerre" up to the instant the ship actually opened fire, the German "merchant raiders" and the British Q-Ships followed these rules, and AFAIK nobody ever questioned the legality. The St.Nazaire raid is another WW2 example.


The German Merchant raiders were also on my mind reading this thread and as Tried Old Soldier rightly mentioned the disguise of "Campbelltown" is an excellent example of the same card being played by the RN.
My understanding is likewise , if you fire flying the enemies "colours" you have "broken the rules".

 

The German Merchant raiders were also on my mind reading this thread and as Tried Old Soldier rightly mentioned the disguise of "Campbelltown" is an excellent example of the same card being played by the RN.
My understanding is likewise , if you fire flying the enemies "colours" you have "broken the rules".

But they were Commando's - They don't have rules