Friendly fire in the Desert - Tunisia 27th December 1942

RAAF FATALITIES IN SECOND WORLD WAR AMONG
RAAF PERSONNEL SERVING ON ATTACHMENT
IN ROYAL AIR FORCE SQUADRONS AND SUPPORT UNITS
405112 Flight Sergeant THIELE, Roy Christian
Source
AWM 237 (65) NAA : A705, 166/39/5
Commonwealth War Graves records
Aircraft Type: Hudson
Serial number: FK 389
Radio call sign:
Unit: ATTD 117 SQN RAF
Summary:
Hudson FK389 on a daytime operational flight on 27th December 1942, was leading a
convoy of Hurricane aircraft to fly from the Middle East to Tunisia. During the flight the
Hudson inadvertently approached a drome in Tunis occupied by an American (P40)
Fighter Squadron, and the Hudson was shot down by an American aerodrome patrol
which failed to identify the Hudson as a friendly aircraft. All on board FK389 were
killed.
Crew :
RAF FO Popplestone, C L W Captain (Pilot)
RAAF 405112 Flt Sgt R C Thiele, (2nd Pilot)
RAF Sgt A A J Mills, (Observer)
RAF Sgt W J Pye, (Wireless Air Gunner)
RAF Sgt T Holliday, (Rigger)
The five on board the aircraft are buried in the Enfidaville War Cemetery, Tunisia.
In Memory of
Flying Officer CYRIL LLOYD WINSTON POPPLESTONE

48626, 117 Sqdn., Royal Air Force
who died age 30
on 27 December 1942
Son of Hedley and Blanche Popplestone; husband of Margery Joyce Popplestone, of Stanford-in-the-Vale, Berkshire.
Remembered with honour
ENFIDAVILLE WAR CEMETERY


In Memory of
Flight Sergeant ARTHUR ALFRED JAMES MILLS

928684, 117 Sqdn., Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
who died age 20
on 27 December 1942
Son of Arthur John Mills, and Ethel Mary Mills, of Leyton, Essex.
Remembered with honour
ENFIDAVILLE WAR CEMETERY

In Memory of
Flight Sergeant ROY CHRISTIAN THIELE

405112, Royal Australian Air Force
who died age 22
on 27 December 1942
Son of Johann Albert and Emelia Lydia Thiele, of Hamilton, Victoria, Australia.
Remembered with honour
ENFIDAVILLE WAR CEMETERY



In Memory of
Sergeant WILFRED JOHN PYE

1066295, 117 Sqdn., Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
who died age 20
on 27 December 1942
Son of John William and Edith Ellen Pye, of Ormskirk, Lancashire.
Remembered with honour
ENFIDAVILLE WAR CEMETERY


In Memory of
Sergeant THOMAS HOLLIDAY

939976, 117 Sqdn., Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
who died age 21
on 27 December 1942
Son of Albert Edmund and Elizabeth Holliday of Stockton-on-Tees, Co. Durham.
Remembered with honour
ENFIDAVILLE WAR CEMETERY

 

Spidge -
It should be recalled that at that time December 27th '42 the Americans had only been in Algeria / Tunisia for less than seven weeks- the 8th Army was still at the Tripoli area and to have a flight of Aircraft overhead from a Southerly direction meant that they were enemy - strange that they would fly from the Mid East all that way to Tunisia- sounds more like bad Staff work in not alerting the front lines to expect friendlies coming in - bit like Pearl Harbour in reverse...
Cheers

 

Spidge -
It should be recalled that at that time December 27th '42 the Americans had only been in Algeria / Tunisia for less than seven weeks- the 8th Army was still at the Tripoli area and to have a flight of Aircraft overhead from a Southerly direction meant that they were enemy - strange that they would fly from the Mid East all that way to Tunisia- sounds more like bad Staff work in not alerting the front lines to expect friendlies coming in - bit like Pearl Harbour in reverse...
Cheers

Hi Tom,

Would they be classed as KIA or something else?

Cheers

Geoff

 

Geeoff -
at the time he was shot down - the pilot was flying in a war zone - the AA gunner was in a war zone- so it would be categorised as KIA - no one was ever distinguished as being killed with friendly or enemy actions- officially friendly fire never happened....

Cheers

 

Geeoff -
at the time he was shot down - the pilot was flying in a war zone - the AA gunner was in a war zone- so it would be categorised as KIA - no one was ever distinguished as being killed with friendly or enemy actions- officially friendly fire never happened....

Cheers

I imagine the P-40 pilot(s) would have had a gut wrenching feeling after being told of the error.

The first time I had come across this in the thousands of reports I have seen in reference to RAAF lads.

Cheers

Geoff

 

Spidge -
It happened - and at that time the Americans were very green as being in th theatre for only a few weeks- shedding some of the greenery happened in February when Rommel took them on at Kasserine - then they started to take it more seriously..
Cheers

 

It can happen to experienced soldiers. Many of the people involved had several tours to their name. A patrol up on the road along the top of the cemetery came under fire, from the cemetery - quickly identifying and returning fire the gunman had gone along the dead ground (I know) the patrol on the road below the cemetery had several high velocity rounds cracking over their heads, they too identified the location and returned fire at the other unit, two units from different regiments in different patrol areas using different frequencies! Tac HQ quickly realised as they heard the two contact reports - Contact wait out! the reports given -the cease fire quickly given, all happened and stopped very quickly. sometimes events confound the best planning.

 

The first time I had come across this in the thousands of reports I have seen in reference to RAAF lads.


I was researching another incident the other night and the date looked familiar....


Meanwhile, at pretty much the same time, around the other side of the world and in the same type of aircraft:

Combat loss 26/12/42 when from flight from Dobodura to Wards Airstrip, whilst evading Japanese fighters, shot down into Hairko Bay near Buna PNG. It was later discovered that this was a Blue shoot-down by a US Navy Ship in area.

******************************************************************

STEPHENS, Henry Raynor - (Flight Sergeant) 404304

Lockheed Hudson A16-3

Buna, Papua New Guinea

27-Dec-42

1 Operational Training Unit (Port Moresby) - only RAAF fatality, died the day after the crash (incident covered in book “Allied Air Transport Operations South West Pacific Area in WWII - Volume 1” by Robert H. Kelly) - survivors: HEMSWORTH, N G (Flight Lieutenant) 417 (260417) / RODD, A H (Sergeant) 411048 / BAMBER, R R (Flight Sergeant) 403250 - also on board were 6 wounded Australian Army soldiers, two of whom drowned when the aircraft ditched in the sea (names unknown).

The casualty file for Hemsworth contains a memo by Sergeant Rodd which mentions that 4 passengers may have been on board, two AIF & two US Army. He details the loss of Private Walter Barney QX22505 but no details on the other casualty. Another memo by Flight Sergeant Bamber doesn’t give names of the fatalities, but mentions the wounded as being three AIF & one US Army. Both reports identify a survivor as Private Peter Bowen of Adelaide (unable to trace)."

 

I was researching another incident the other night and the date looked familiar....


Meanwhile, at pretty much the same time, around the other side of the world and in the same type of aircraft:


I hope we don't get the third one.

Geoff's search engine might be able to shed some light entering a date.

Helped me out today with a RAF lad where there was a misspelt name at Reykjavik cemetery in Iceland.

(Did you receive the spreadsheet?)

Cheers

Geoff