Frank R Parsons, Molesey Memorial - name missing

Hi all

I wonder if you can help. My grandfather, Frank Reginald Parsons, died in Italy in June 1944 and has a headstone in Orvieto War Cemetery.

His name was never included on his local Molesey war memorial and I have checked other local memorials to see if he was listed there in error - to no avail. I have already contacted the Memorials Dept of the Imperial War Museum, the local council and the local history society but have not received a response from any yet.

I wonder if there's another way I can search whether he's commemorated anywhere? Assuming his name was missed in error, is there a way I can get his name added retrospectively?

I am awaiting his official service records but can confirm the following:

Name: Frank Reginald Parsons
Born: 1913
Died: 24th June 1944, Lake Trasimeno
Service number: 14335101
Unit: 2nd Bn, The London Irish Rifles, Royal Ulster Rifles

I look forward to hearing from you.

Many thanks

Louise

 

Hello and welcome...
PARSONS, FRANK REGINALD. Rank: Rifleman. Service No: 14335101. Date of Death: 24/06/1944. Age: 31.
Regiment/Service: Royal Ulster Rifles 2nd Bn. The London Irish Rifles
Grave Reference: I, H, 18. Cemetery: ORVIETO WAR CEMETERY.
Additional Information: Son of Thomas and Priscilla Parsons, of West Molesey, Surrey; husband of Florence Alice Ethel Parsons, of West Molesey.

From what I can Google, it seems the Molesey War Memorial doesn't have any Names, let alone Frank's, just plaques honouring all for WW1 and also for WW2.
http://www.windowonwoking.org.uk/sites/goldsworthparkcommunityassociation/memorialsworldwar1andtwo/surreywarmemorialspagee/EastandWestMoleseyWarMemorial
Have you tried contacting the local RBL Branch?
Royal British Legion (Molesey Branch) Club Ltd 4 St Marys Road, West Molesey, KT8 0ST. Phone: (208) 979-3637

Just a quick skim through CWGC produces 45 Names from WW2 so there's likely to be even more.
There may well be Church Rolls of Honour, so try checking those in West Molesey.

If you're not local, then you may need to contact a local paper, but in cash strapped times Councils will probably prefer the existing generic version covering "All who Fell" rather than run the risk of missing anyone else.

 

hello Louise

this is quite common across the country and not all casualties are commemorated in their locality.
contact the below

http://www.achurchnearyou.com/town/17/west+molesey/

list of other memorials within Surrey
http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Surrey/TownsandParishMemorials.html


regards
Clive

 

Have you tried here:

http://www.iwm.org.uk/memorials/search?query=molesey&items_per_page=10

For some reason, name lists are not given in the inventory, which seems odd to me as someone must have forwarded the descriptions but could not be bothered to record the names.

It is not unusual for names to be missing from memorials for many reasons. If the family never put the name forward to whoever was organising it, it would not be included.

 

Louise

have a look at the info below


Addition of names to war memorials
As the creation of war memorials has traditionally been organised locally, with there being no
central government directives or funding, the question of who is or is not commemorated and
the form in which their details are recorded is usually held to be a local matter.
Please note that there are no definitive ‘rules’ about the names and inscriptions on war
memorials. Different criteria for inclusion were used by different communities and so who is
commemorated, which conflicts are commemorated and the style in which these details
appear varies from memorial to memorial. This is why some war memorials only include those
who fought and died, whilst other also include those who fought and survived, and why some
include civilian as well as service casualties.
Points for consideration
Establish ‘ownership’
Use local sources to establish if there is a formal transfer of ‘ownership’ to a community body
(e.g. parish council, local trust, etc) in order to obtain permission for adding names (or
conflicts). If this cannot be established, then the War Memorials (Local Authorities’ Powers)
Act of 1923 and subsequent amendments allow a local authority to add names (or conflicts)
to a war memorial within its area whether it ‘owns’ it or not and you may need to obtain
permission from them. The Trust would suggest contacting your local Conservation Officer
(normally based in the conservation or planning departments) for further advice. If the
memorial is located in a place of worship or in its grounds then you may need to obtain
permission from the relevant religious authority to add names (or conflicts).
Research the history of the war memorial
Use local sources (e.g. parish records, local archives at libraries or museums, local
newspaper archives) to establish the history of the memorial. You might want to check if
there were specific criteria for inclusion on the war memorial and that there are no legal
requirements/legacies attached to the site of the war memorial which might affect any
proposed additions. Please note that criteria for inclusion can be adapted if the local
community feel this is appropriate, but it might be useful to know what they were originally so
that the proposed additions do not compromise the original intentions of the community or
the memorial’s design.

http://www.warmemorials.org/uploads/publications/115.pdf


regards
Clive

 

Hi all

Many thanks for your responses. I have an update!

The Open Spaces and Memorials Manager of the local council rang me yesterday. He too confirmed there were many reasons that names aren't included on memorials where expected: people go by names other than those officially recorded, people move in/out of areas, if the dead was noted as "missing in action" sometimes the family didn't want them recorded in the vain hope they might return etc. etc. My grandfather's situation negates all of these things. However, he did confirm that inclusion on the memorials required a letter to be sent to the next of kin and then for a signed confirmation form to be returned to the council with a fee! I have no idea how soon after the war ended that these letters went out but it does add the complication that during cash-strapped years potentially many of those left behind simply couldn't afford the subscription. I was never aware of this aspect in the story I always heard from my gran (that his name was omitted in error) and I rather suspect that either the letter never reached her, or perhaps more likely that suddenly finding herself to be the young single mother of a very small child she had other things on her mind, IF the letter ever arrived!! At least it's part of the puzzle completed.

Either way, I'm pleased to confirm that my grandfather fits the council criteria to have his name added to the local memorial! There are 2 in Molesey (East and West) so I can take my pick. Or rather my mother can as I'm sure this will be a touching Christmas present for her!

I have plenty of other questions to which I hope you can provide answers (I am tracing grandfather's journey through the war via his letters home to my gran) but I will post these separately.

Thanks again!

Louise

 

Hi Louise

Further to your wish to find out more about your Grandfather's journey through the war, can I suggest that you obtain his service records before you start, if you have not already done so - link - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records#how-to-apply-for-service-personnel-records

TD

 

Hi Tricky

I have done this but am waiting for them to arrive.

Thanks

Louise

 

Hi all

Just to update you, today seems to be my lucky day. Not only have my grandfather's service records arrived (quite thin and scrawly from first inspection - will look properly this weekend) but the local space councillor will be meeting me at the war memorial next week to discuss where my grandfather's name can be added.

It's taking a while to get there, but all things seem to be making nice progress so far!

Thanks

Lou