"Foxhound" armoured car?

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by Seroster, Oct 22, 2017.

  1. Seroster

    Seroster Canadian researcher

    I posted this images on a modelling site and someone pointed out the oddity of a listing of "Foxhound" armoured cars. Another person speculated that perhaps these referred to American-made M20 armoured cars. Has anyone run into this name for the M20?

    The images are the return sheets (holdings) for the 1st Canadian Army from May 1945.

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  2. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    I can't blow these up enough to read but I've never heard the M20 AUC referred to by a name or even one across a reference to them in Canadian / U.K. Service
     
  3. Seroster

    Seroster Canadian researcher

    Hi Jon, try clicking on the images. That should open them in imgur, and you can then zoom in on them.

    Anyway - thank you for your input! It's strange...
     
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  4. Dave55

    Dave55 Very Senior Member

  5. Seroster

    Seroster Canadian researcher

    Yeeees... but the Fox is listed separately in the documents.
     
  6. Dave55

    Dave55 Very Senior Member

    Oh, I see now, Fox vs Foxhound.
     
  7. Don Juan

    Don Juan Well-Known Member

    Think this is the Canadian version of the Humber AC, which mounted the Browning .5 in the turret.
     
  8. Orwell1984

    Orwell1984 Senior Member

    A mention here: Made in Canada - CMP vehicles > Car, Armoured, Mark I, Fox I
     
  9. Don Juan

    Don Juan Well-Known Member

    This could be an AA variant of the Fox. There were certainly AA versions of the Humber and the Staghound, and I vaguely recall propositions for the Canadians to also supply some AA armoured cars.

    Hmm......
     
  10. Don Juan

    Don Juan Well-Known Member

    Here's another possibility - the numbers at least match with the 1st Canadian Army table:

    GM Conversion.jpg
     
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  11. Seroster

    Seroster Canadian researcher

    What is a "rear link" vehicle?
     
  12. Don Juan

    Don Juan Well-Known Member

    A rear link carried an additional high-power (HP) wireless set for contacting higher formation - i.e. from regimental to brigade level. Sometimes this necessitated the removal of the armament.

    Actually realised I can't count - there were 18 Foxhounds in 1st Canadian Army, and 17 of these conversions - at least initially.
     
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  13. Orwell1984

    Orwell1984 Senior Member

    Just to add on to what Don Juan posted I found the following passage on page 7 of The Staghound in Canadian Service by Roger V Lucy:
    So perhaps Foxhound was the name given to this version of the Fox, in line with the other "hounds" serving with the Canadians.
     
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  14. Seroster

    Seroster Canadian researcher

    Thanks guys, that's an interesting possibility!
     
  15. Gary Kennedy

    Gary Kennedy Member

    I've had a look through my partial returns for 21AG AFV and there is one for 5th May 1945.

    5th Cdn Armd Div is shown with Armd Cars as; 2 Greyhound, 1 Daimler (2-pr) and 10 Fox. Just to note the Fox is under armoured cars, not scout cars, and is not termed Foxhound, just Fox. There are two more such vehicles listed with units/HQs, one with 12 Corps Tps and one with First Cdn Army Tps. Total Unit Entitlements (as authorised by WE, orders, etc) for 21AG is 248. There is a footnote that these vehicles are 'for Internal Security'. Total holdings by Parks and sundry on this date are 182.

    The return lists headings for; Staghound, divided by type as I (37-mm), II (3-in how), III (75-mm) and AA (0.50-cal); Greyhound; Humber IV (37-mm) and Humber AA; Daimler (2-pr); Fox (no armament detail noted); AEC I/II (6-pr), AEC III (75-mm). There isn't a separate column for armd cars fitted out as rear link vehicles.

    I don't think that helps, but it's all I've got!

    Gary
     
  16. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    How many m8 Greyhounds please ?
     
  17. Gary Kennedy

    Gary Kennedy Member

    Just a very light dusting as of May 1945; 2 with 5 Cdn Armd Div, 1 with 5th Br Inf Div and 1 with 2nd Cdn Corps Tps, plus 1 each with 21 AG Veh Pk and the ARG, for a grand total of six, with nil on UEs.
     
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  18. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    Muchardo appreciado !!
     
  19. Richelieu

    Richelieu Active Member

    All of the ‘hounds’ that I am aware of were U.S. sourced vehicles. Colonel Icks listed four in the 1972 Profile: M8 Greyhound; T17 Staghound; T18 Boarhound and M38 Wolfhound. Another source offers Deerhound for the 6-wheeled T17.

    Could these Foxhounds be M20s perhaps? Well, from http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/vehicles/armouredcars/armouredcars.htm:

    The 1st Canadian Armoured Car Regiment (Royal Canadian Dragoons) used a mixture of Staghounds, halftracks and Daimlers in early 1944. As well, the US M8 Reconnaissance Car (or "Greyhound") was used in limited numbers in engineer units and in the RCD regimental headquarters.

    The sources that I have to hand seem either to suggest Greyhound for both M8 & M20 or avoid naming the M20 entirely. The return shows only a single M8 and it seems to me that M20s would be more versatile and therefore useful to engineering units and RHQ in any case. Perhaps the RCD war diaries could shed some light on this.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  20. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

    There are another couple of wild animals on that report that I was unaware of - I knew that variants of the Ram were turned into APCs and known as Kangaroo

    But I hadn't seen Wallaby before - basically a Kangaroo used for ammunition supply & the Badger flamethrower version (thanks Wiki)
     

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