Father in Camerons & Parachute Regiment, N Africa, Italy, Arnhem,Palestine

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Scottish Shona, Aug 14, 2020.

  1. David Woods

    David Woods Member

    The Army List has your father listed as a W.S./Capt. on 25.07.1945 and as a T/Maj. on 25.07.1946. That would explain his epaulettes.

    The 2 photo's you posted of your father show him wearing the 3 pips of a Captain.

    Your father was commissioned into the A.A.C. Suggesting he was selected from the ranks of The Parachute Regiment for having demonstrated both bravery and leadership ability of a high level. As a newly commissioned officer, he didn't necessarily, probably didn't, return to his former battalion. He may have served with two Parachute battalions.
     

    Attached Files:

    JimHerriot and Scottish Shona like this.
  2. Thank you, that's really interesting, especially your personal opinion about bravery and leadership. Also to learn that he could have served with more than one battalion.

    In Nov 1946 (according to photos) he arrived in Port Said and was in Cairo in Dec '46. My sister and I assumed the promotion would have been in Korea, towards the end of his service, having had greater experience by that time. However, one thing I am learning on this journey is we should assume nothing! So before I assume that T/Maj stands for 'temporary' I should clarify if that is the case?

    Shona
     
    JimHerriot likes this.
  3. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Remember that you do not need any military details to apply, if I were you I would send a copy of the War Office letter from your first post.
     
    JimHerriot and Scottish Shona like this.
  4. gmyles

    gmyles Senior Member

    Hi Shona

    According to Wikipedia:

    To qualify for a 1st Army clasp you had to be in 1st Army some time between 08 Nov 42 and 12 May 43.

    Problem is I can't find a battalion of the Cameron Highlanders that would qualify.

    At that time:

    1st Battalion, were in Burma.

    2nd Battalion, were in Italy with 4 Div.

    5th Battalion were in North Africa but with 8th Army.

    7th Battalion who became 5th (Scottish) Parachute Battalion on 24 March 1942 were still training in UK until June 1943.​

    So by my working, if your father was in the Cameron Highlanders and his service number definitely suggests that, he must have joined another regiment afterwards to qualify for a 1st Army clasp.

    My best guess as to why it also says 'D.J.McInnes, The Parachute Regiment, 2nd Parachute Brigade.' on his medal is that he probably qualified for the Africa Star (again) whilst with 2 Para Bde in Tunisia whilst they trained for the invasion of Sicily but is actually wearing the 1st Army Clasp for his time on a different unit that was in the 1st Army.

    I have also searched the unit diaries of HQ 2 Para Bde, 4th, 5th, 6th Para Battalions and 1st Ind Para Platoon between October 1944 and January 1945, and found nothing.

    Maybe he was at 2 Paras depot which was at Lido De Roma late 1944.

    However most of this is conjecture and only his service records will confirm any of this.

    Hope this helps.

    Gus
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2020
    JimHerriot, Tony56 and Scottish Shona like this.
  5. Good suggestion, I will do just that.
    Shona
     
    JimHerriot likes this.
  6. Gosh, you have done a huge amount of research on this, I really do appreciate it, especially when you must have been frustrated not finding an obvious answer.

    To go right back to the beginning of the thread in Post#2 Tony suggested that the Royal Artillery record I found on the 'site I can't mention' might be an odd one out given the rest of his service? Could that be the missing army link that might explain the clasp? To recap on that record it said:
    D J McInnes
    Rank: Second Lieutenant
    Other rank: War Substantive Lieutenant 03/06/1943
    Service: British Army
    Sec. Unit: Regular Army Emergency Commission
    Archive ref: UK Army list 1944
    Seniority date 03/12/1942

    Yes, the sooner these records come the better....then I can update the thread in a couple of month's time and all will be revealed!
    Shona
     
    JohnH and JimHerriot like this.
  7. Drew5233 Sorry there is a typo in the service number in my reply to you, post #20. It should have read 321586
    Shona
     
    JimHerriot likes this.
  8. gmyles And in my reply a minute ago I missed out a detail, apologies:
    Record also includes
    Primary Unit: Royal Artillery
     
    JimHerriot likes this.
  9. I have another update for those who contributed before, from a search I placed with ParaData last week - I was delighted how quickly they responded with some information relating to the early days, as follows:

    "DJ McInnes, (sometimes spelt MacInnes) 2933882 was a Private who successfully completed Parachute jump course number 53 at RAF Ringway. This course ran from 1/3/1943 to 14/3/1943. The course was described as "Preliminary Training Course" It is noted in the course reports that McInnes had previously been a participant on Course 52 (22/2/43 to 8/3/43). However in the Course 52 records it states that McInnes had "slight concussion on his 4th Aircraft jump" So he was sent to the next course, Course 53. Is this a link to the undated hospital admission??

    Our records also list DJ McInnes 321586, now as a lieutenant, appears in our records again on RAF Ringway Course 121. This course ran from 18/6/44 to 3/7/44. Our records show he was then part of 1st Parachute battalion ITC (Infantry Training) So he may have been used as an instructor.

    I cannot find any real confirmation of which units he served with. He could have served with more than one airborne unit. Service records will tell you more. 2nd Para Bde served mainly in Italy and Africa during WW2. Details of medals awarded will appear in his service records, along with details of which units he served with and where he served.

    T/Maj does suggest that he held a temporary promotion. This was very common during war time. Again service records should show detail of this.

    When you receive the official service records please send me a scan of them and we will happily continue with this research "

    Another wee bit of the jigsaw filled in :)
     
    JohnH, JimHerriot and 4jonboy like this.
  10. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Shona, thanks for updating with your progress, members always appreciate feedback.
     
    JimHerriot likes this.
  11. David Woods

    David Woods Member

    Just a couple of points of interest and some speculation.

    In searching for Camerons with a service number beginning 2933. I found 2 of interest.

    2933741 enlisted 18.01.1940.
    2933951 enlisted 15.02.1940.
    So your father, 2933882 Pte. D. J. McInnes, enlisted somewhere between these dates.

    Paradata tells us your father was a Private upon joining the Parachute Regiment and that Course 52 began on 22.02.1943. I suspect your father enlisted with the Parachute Regiment close to that date.

    The slight concussion your father received may have been due to "Ringing the bell." The term used when the parachutist fails to keep his body straight and chin up, when exiting the aircraft and his face hits the rim of the hole in the floor. Such an incident may have needed hospital treatment and would have been extremely painful. Otherwise, he landed badly and struck his head, also possibly needing hospital treatment. Whatever he did, it was serious enough to not complete the course.

    The course dates overlap. Either the dates are wrong or he only did his last 3 qualifying jumps on Course 53.
    Course 52 22.02.1943 to 08.03.1943.
    Course 53 01.03.1943 to 14.03.1943.

    Your father was commissioned on 10.06.1944.
    Course 121 began on 18.06.1944.
    I would like to suggest that this may have been a refresher course before being assigned to a battalion. He may not have jumped since qualifying. I don't think he was an instructor.

    1st Parachute battalion ITC (Infantry Training) is confusing as a battalion did not have it's own Infantry Training Centre (I.T.C.). There was a No.1 Parachute Regiment Infantry Training Centre, 1945-47, which shouldn't have existed in 1944. So I wouldn't place your father in 1st Parachute Battalion just yet. Sorry!

    University graduates were a prime target for officer training. Surprising your father wasn't selected earlier.

    Hope this adds just a little to your timeline.
     
    JimHerriot likes this.
  12. @DavidWoods Thank you for your detailed analysis of the ParaData information I posted and the possible inaccuracies therein. You are right in that I should assume nothing is correct. I am now totally absorbed in this journey but I need to reign in my enthusiasm till I get the official records instead of leaping off to investigate the 1st Parachute Battalion (which of course was the first thing I did!)

    I will update if anything else comes to light.

    Thanks again to everyone for their interest and help.
     
    JimHerriot likes this.
  13. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    The men in the picture are wearing 29 Infantry Brigade patches.

    The problem is that it only arrived in Korea in December 1950 as the 29th Independent Infantry Brigade.

    Edit: CORRECTION
    : they landed in Busan and disembarked between 3-18 November.


    At that time it comprised:

    1st Battalion, Royal Northumberland Fusiliers.
    1st Battalion, the Gloucestershire Regiment.
    1st Battalion, the Royal Ulster Rifles.

    8th King's Royal Irish Hussars.
    7th Royal Tank Regiment.
    45 Field Regiment R.A.
    11 LAA Battery R.A.
    170 Mortar Battery R.A.

    Prior to that:
    (May to Aug 1945)

    1st Battalion, Cameronians.
    1st Battalion, the Essex Regiment.
    2nd Battalion, Queen's Royal Regiment.

    And yet, those non-European faces don't seem to fit.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
  14. The Korea service is the period we know least about and have only three photos. I will attach the two others - maybe the vehicle or either soldier will suggest a clue. He was definitely in Korea in early August 1950. However, until the official records come back we don't know the date he was posted out there or returned. Apparently from 1/12/50 to 31/10/52 he was in the Royal Army Educational Corps but I don't know if that role could have overlapped with when he was stationed in Korea? After Korea he taught in the Queen Victoria Military School in Dunblane.
    Shona Korea 1.jpg Korea 3.jpg
     
  15. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    1 Parachute Regiment Infantry Training Centre was a redesignation of No 1 Army Air Corps Infantry Training Centre which took place on 21 April 1945. The AAC Infantry Training Centre had been created on 28 July 1944 when it absorbed the Airborne Forces Holding Unit. Originally located at Clay Cross, Derbeyshire it moved to Albany Barracks, Isle of Wight on 25 September 1944
     
  16. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    A good start might be if anybody can identify this man's cap badge:

    Screenshot 2020-08-25 at 23.11.36.png
     
  17. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles


    Screenshot 2020-08-25 at 23.11.36.png officers-bronze-army-educational-corps-cap-badge.jpg
     

Share This Page