Explain different artillery regiments please

Discussion in 'Royal Artillery' started by Steve Turner, Dec 18, 2020.

  1. Steve Turner

    Steve Turner Member

    Simple layman question:

    what's the difference between a RA field regiment and say a medium heavy anti tank or anti aircraft regiment.
     
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  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Prior to any RA members posting here you could start perhaps with

    British Artillery in World War 2 - I find its not the easiest site to run around but the details as far as I know are good

    I also like using this site - RA 1939-45 Units and if you select one of the sections then it provides the Regiments and if you then select a Regiment it usually provides the equipment that Regiment would use, thus defining what each regiment would do

    I am no artillery expert but I also guess a google on the names of each type of regiment (Field, Anti-Tank etc) would/should provide some basic definitions

    TD
     
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  3. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    Field Regiments are armed with Field Guns in WW2 the standard weapon was the 25 Pounder it was highly mobile towed by a Quad 4x4 Gun Tractor with a trailer (LImber) which carried a small amount of ammunition. The shell weighed 25 pounds was approx 84mm with a range of 7 miles.
    Medium Regiments fired larger guns Howitzer type to fire at a longer range at a higher angle. Their size made them less manoeuvrable. There were also Heavy Regiments firing much larger shells over longer ranges.
    Anti Tank were small very mobile guns which became larger as the war progressed and tanks became larger with thicker armour beginning at 2 pounds rising to `17 pound armour piercing shells which travelled at high velocity to pierce the armour.
    Anti Aircraft Regiments used Anti aircraft guns of various sizes Light AA Guns were a bit like big machine guns with small shells from 20mm upwards made to Scandinavian Oerlikon or Bofors designs used by both sides. There were also heavy AA guns typically the 3.7 inch gun. Later in the war when the Allies controlled the skies these guns were used to supplement the standard Artillery guns mainly in either anti tank or Counter mortar fire. Their shells were relatively high velocity with a flat trajectory. Because most of the ammunition was fused (timed to explode) the heavy AA fired air burst over the enemy to scatter shrapnel down upon them.
    There were also SP Self Propelled guns which to a laymen might look like a tank but they had a purpose to keep up with tanks in mobile warfare but to take on the enemy artillery or infantry whilst providing armoured protection to the gun crew.
    If you have any particular Regiment in mind dont hesitate to ask.
    Field Gun 25 pd Field gun.jpg Medium gun Medium Howitzer.JPG
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2020
  4. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Add to the above Coast Regiments. Primary aim defence against shipping. Guns ranged from 2pdrs up to 16".

    Tim
     
  5. SteveDee

    SteveDee Well-Known Member

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  6. Derek Barton

    Derek Barton Senior Member

    You can add to that AA Z Regiments firing anti-aircraft rockets & a few units not firing guns but just as important such as Searchlight Regiments, Survey Regiments, Defence Regiments & later in the war when there was a shortage of infantry & less need for some types of artillery, Garrison Regiments & Infantry Regiments.
     
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  7. smdarby

    smdarby Well-Known Member

    I must admit I'm with Steve and have very little knowledge of RA regiments. I read the above posts with interest. If I could add a few more basic questions (which I'm sure sound simple but are probably quite complicated):

    How many guns in the various RA regiments?
    How many men in each of the various RA regiments?
    How were the RA regiments distributed throughout the army?
     
  8. lionboxer

    lionboxer Member

    What was the difference between a Jungle Field Regt and an ordinary Field Regt? They both were deployed in the jungles of Burma.
    Lionboxer
     
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  9. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Random pick - RA 1939-45 25 Fld Rgt
    Equipment
    Jan 41 - 18 pdr
    Feb 41 - 16 x 25 pdr, 32 x Karrier Spiders

    another
    RA 1939-45 1 Fld Rgt
    Equipment
    Oct 39 - 1 Troop 18 pdrs & 1 Troop 4.5 in Hows per Bty
    Jan 41 - 16 x 25 pdr, 24 x Morris tractors

    BRITISH ARTILLERY IN WORLD WAR 2

    Both are useful sites but not the easiest to explore

    TD

    If the sites are searched then details can be found:
    British Artillery Organisations 1939-45
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2020
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  10. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    #8 above Jungle Artillery. Whilst I have no Jungle Experience The main difference would due to terrain. The Indian and Australian units used either a modified stripped down 25 pounder or the 75mm Mountain Howitzer which could be stripped for transport on the back of mules. There were two Indian Mountain Gun units in Italy, one was a British TA unit from Essex (85th Mountain Regt) that was sent to Palestine to train then posted to the Apennines. They were needed not so much for their portability but due to Crest Clearance issues. i.e. firing over the mountain peaks particularly against enemy heavy mortar batteries. The 25 pounder was a gun/howitzer in its Mk1 an 2 form it was only capable of firing up to an elevation of 50 degrees. This left a huge dead spot in hills or even Wadi country such as Anzio where the enemy could form up in the deep wadis or on the blind side of a hill out of firing line of the guns.
    Major DCL Shepherd 266 Battery 67th Field Regt studied this and experimented with the construction of special gun pits as his men particularly D Troop had several skilled builders in their ranks.
    They dug deep pits lined to prevent collapse, raised the gun wheels onto stacked ammo boxes and dug the spade shaped trail at the rear of the gun into the ground achieving up to 70 degrees elevation enabling them to break up enemy attacks before they started. The technique was approved by HQ RA and also used at Monte Grande on the Gothic Line but they had problems with range and atmospherics i.e. cross winds and temperature/moisture which affected the flight of the shells causing accuracy to be reduced.
    Similar problems would be found in the jungle as you might hit the tree canopy, not a good thing as the 25pdr was usually used with direct (percussion) fused High Explosive shells. Hitting a tree would detonate the shell which had an effective shrapnel radius of about 250 yards.
    The 25 pounder was therefore given two sets of firing calculations horizontal (flat) and Upper Register. The Mk3 guns were later fitted with a modified gun carriage to enable the gun to be lifted on its platform to allow elevation up to 70 degrees without digging a special pit as this reduced mobility of the guns in Upper Register.
    see IWM photographs below used to illustrate the gun pit for RA instructions.
    THE BRITISH ARMY IN ITALY 1944 THE BRITISH ARMY IN ITALY 1944
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2020
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  11. PackRat

    PackRat Well-Known Member

    To add to Uncle Target's post, the 'Jungle' name was mainly a reference to the difference in equipment, Lionboxer.

    139th (4th London) Field Regiment is an example. It went to France in 1940 with 18-pounder field guns and the usual Quads, trucks etc. It was eventually re-equipped with 25-pounders and sent to India. In July 1943 it became 139th (Jungle) Field Regiment and was re-equipped with lighter weaponry (mortars and mountain howitzers) with jeeps to shift them. This gave faster movement along jungle tracks and enabled deployment in country inaccessible to 25-pounders - if necessary the howitzers could be broken down and carried by mule or even manhandled in pieces to get into rough, hilly terrain. Instead of three batteries of 25-pounders it had:

    362 Battery - 16 x 3-inch mortars
    364 Battery - 8 x 3.7-inch howitzers
    503 Battery - 8 x 3.7-inch howitzers

    Also in mid-1943 in India 'Assault' field regiments were trialled for amphibious assault landings on the coast of Burma and subsequent operations inland. 130th (Lowland) Field Regiment was one of these. It had fought in the First Arakan Campaign with the usual 25-pounders drawn by gun tractors. It became 130th (Assault) Field Regiment in August 1943 and re-equipped with:

    315 Field Battery - 8 x 25-pounders (no change)
    316 SP Battery - 8 x 'Priest' 105-mm self-propelled guns
    494 Light Battery - 8 x 3.7-inch Howitzers (with additional jeeps)

    Some anti-tank regiments also re-quipped later in the Burma Campaign when operating in areas where there was little chance of meeting Japanese armour. 122nd (Royal Warwickshire) Anti-Tank Regiment, for example, converted two batteries to mortars, retaining only one battery of 6-pounders mainly for use in the 'bunker busting' role:

    168 AT Battery - 12 x 3-inch Mortars
    402 AT Battery - 12 x 3-inch Mortars
    321 AT Battery - 12 x 6-pounder Anti-Tank Guns
     
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  12. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

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  13. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Ordnance QF 25-pounder - Wikipedia
    Short, Mark I
    The "Baby" was intended for jungle warfare and was only used by Australian units in the South West Pacific theatre. The gun could be towed by a jeep or broken down into 13 sections and transported by air. During the New Guinea campaign the gun was manhandled up steep jungle tracks where trucks could not operate.


    Jury axle
    In Burma, artificers of 129 (Lowland) Jungle Field Regiment developed a local modification to use a Jeep axle and wheels to produce a 20-inch narrower axle track for easier movement along restricted jungle paths, along with some minor modifications to the gun trail; it was called the Jury Axle. Tests in action showed the gun was stable, it was first reported to GHQ India in October 1943. It appears that it was also used without its shield, and the gun could be disassembled for transport in pieces by Jeep. 139th (4th London) Jungle Field Regiment used the modified guns and developed procedures for dismantling them for stowage aboard Douglas C-47 Dakota transport aircraft.[29][30]


    Ordnance QF 25-pounder Short
    [​IMG]

    TD
     
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  14. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    Ref Amphibious Assault: 67th Field Regt went ashore with the spearhead landing force, 2nd Infantry Brigade 1st Infantry Division at Anzio. They were the only artillery in action for the first few days.
    They also made a training film for using the 25 pounder in Anti Tank role but I cant find it anywhere.
    THE ALLIED LANDINGS AT ANZIO: 22 JANUARY-23 MAY 1944
     
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  15. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    There's some excellent information on the Royal Artillery here:
    Artillery
    Bear in mind the term 'Regiment' in the RA was different from that used elsewhere in the Army. For the RA the Regiment was the Royal Regiment of Artillery. When used as a unit term such as 48th LAA Regiment, 3rd HAA Regiment etc it roughly equates, for instance, to an Infantry Battalion.

    Tim
     
  16. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    A site worth visiting if you Really want to understand Artillery methods and terms in WW2 mentioned by TD above: BRITISH ARTILLERY IN WORLD WAR 2
    Lots to learn here, see you in a few years time.
     
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  17. Welchchap

    Welchchap Member

    Just to add more confusion.
    TA RA units have historys that are difficult to follow!
    Glamorgan Artillery Volunteers from formation to WW1 and WW2.
     
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  18. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

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  19. Steve Turner

    Steve Turner Member

    great help thanks. I ask because I’m reading the war diaries of 95 anti tank Regt and they learned that they were to become a field Regt. The news seemed to be received well. Just wasn’t sure why that would be. Maybe longer range weapons meant they’d be further back.
     
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  20. Steve Turner

    Steve Turner Member

    Haha
     

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