Saw this on the TV over the weekend. Very sad. I think the Memorial should stay. The Estonians are wrong. Deadly Riots in Tallinn: Soviet Memorial Causes Rift between Estonia and Russia - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News BBC NEWS | Europe | Estonia to remove Soviet memorial What do you think?
It can't have been a lot of fun being 'absorbed' by the Soviet Union - and then 'liberated 'by the Nazis, and then reoccupied by the Soviets. Perhaps they have cause to equate the hammer and sickle with the swastika.
To that end they proposed two bills - one which allows them to move monuments which glorify any occupying power, and the other, which was passed on Wednesday - which allows for the exhumation and reburial of soldiers' remains. No real problem with the first part, I can see both sides and understand why this momument is causing trouble. The 2nd part of the quote above is just down right frekking awful, any war dead deserves more respect than that, regardless of who you were fighting for.
Thanks for replying marina & lee, thought this would sink without trace. The Memorial is hardly one of those over the top Soviet ones is it? It looks quite understated with the bowed head of the Soviet soldier remembering fallen comrades. No tanks or signs of victory. Estonians fought on both sides in WW2, they can't hide that.
I agree with your comments Owen, my view is that a monument of this kind is not about glorification, but to honour the fallen above anything else.
Good morning, all. We need to put this in perspective. It's not as if they were blowing up the monument-- they are moving it and the graves under it to a nearby military cemetery-- I don't see it as a big deal. All of our nations have consolidated military burials in the past-- most of the US and CWGC cemeteries in Europe contain bodies moved from other cemeteries over the years. From the standpoint of "dishonoring the dead", I can't get too upset about this. From the standpoint of a country trying to rid itself of symbols of past foreign occupation, I understand and support the Estonians desire to get this Soviet monument out of the center of their capital. This is not an issue of respect for the war dead, but a political one as to who really runs Estonia now.... Removal of monuments and transfer of bodies has happened all over the old Eastern Bloc, and nobody got this upset about it. In this case, the monument is simply being used as a symbolic issue for a greater political battle-- I think the Estonians have every right to move it. Doc
Bit of a theme in Estonia, remember the protests over the memorial to the 'liberators' of the SS there? The rioting definitely appears to me more of an outing of bad blood that's built up since the USSR fell. Ethnic Russians are in a peculiar legal position in many of the former sov-bloc countries. The removal of the Statue does seem more of a symptom of this built up pressure rather than a direct cause of the bloodshed.
No tanks or signs of victory. Estonians fought on both sides in WW2, they can't hide that. It's not a part of the world I know much about, but i got some idea of the impossibilities of life for Eastern Europeans from Rory McLean's's book 'Stalin's Nose.' It really is worth reading. He's a travel writer of Eastern european extraction who is called to East Germany to help an aunt smuggle the body of a relative further east (an illegal act at the time). On the way, they cross many east European boundaries and the history of the family comes out as they visit with relatives, all trapped in areas of different political persuasions. Potted histories of the areas are given and various characters appear : family members who are communist, fascist, Nazi and so on, depending on where the tides of war threw them up. I had never understood before what confusion there was for people whose national boundaries kept changing. Fighting for the nazis didn;t necessarily mean they were pro -Nazi - it might mean they were anti-Soviet, and vice versa. And then the horrors began. It is easy to judge them - for us the issues of what side we were on were more clear cut. I never knew the meaning of 'divided loyalties' until I read this book. Anyway, it's an immensely moving and poignant book (also very funny in places: they managed to lose the corpse in Prague and that remains one of the funniest chapters I've ever read.) I don't really know whether it's right to move that memorial or not, but their bitter history perhaps explains why some of them want to. I['m going on about this book a bit, aren't I? Well, if you're looking for something insightful toldwith wit and humour for a summer read, this is it.
Regards the Baltic States and ethnic-Russians, my mate in Latvia told me about of some of his neighbours in the flats he lives in. One neighbour is a Latvian born American who on retirement returned to Latvia. He absolutely HATES the Russians. Has no time for them, detests them. Another neighbour is an ethnic-Russian, who Stalin had moved into Latvia post-WW2. He speaks no Latvian at all. My mate served in the Red Army in the 1980's speaks Russian so helps the old chap out with officaldom, pensions, doctors prescriptions and so on which are all in Latvian. So in one block on flats you have a mix of a Russian-hating-Latvian-born-American, ethnic-Russians and Latvians all mixed up. No wonder it kicks off now and again.
I have just recieved a letter from my chum in Latvia. I asked him about the trouble up in Estonia, this is what he said,exactly as writen. About russians, it was special trouble. Russia wait a moment to organize trouble in Baltic States, in world always. It was situation about dead/die place of russians soldiers in the centre of Tallin. Russians drank vodka and organized trouble in this place always. Needed or not needed it was not important . And bus station was next. And then government of Estonia decided to move to new place. All this action was done wery, very very, polite , correct, delicate , good and with respect. New place is beatifull, silent. Finally all people were satisfy (satisfyed), Russia hate Baltic States. Russia lost in this situation , it is dangerous country. Things aren't exactly harmonious over there doesn't it? Sounds like Estonians tried to do things correctly. What with relations between West & Russia not going too well at the G8 talks too, relations with Putin's Government are a bit strained to say the least.
I agree with Owen D, I also think than the Estonian government is wrong in this situation. I wonder what would real Soviet soldiers thought about all this 62 years later.... Honour to the Soviet people....:medalofhonor:
