Essex to Dorsetshire

Discussion in 'British Army Units - Others' started by Mandy Jayne, Nov 23, 2016.

  1. Mandy Jayne

    Mandy Jayne Active Member

    Does anyone know when the Essex Regiment merged into The Dorsetshires? My Grandad started in the Essex Regt & was listed as missing on July 10th. He was with the Dorsetshires 4th Battalion when captured.
     
  2. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Which battalion of the Essex Regiment are we talking about?

    I don't think any Essex battalion was ever merged into the Dorsetshires. Both the 4th and 5th battalions of the Dorsets were part of the 43rd (Wessex) Division [130th Infantry Brigade] - could that be the connection?

    Could it be that your grandad was transferred between the two regiments - where did he serve and where was he captured.

    You say that he was listed missing on July 10th 1944, but do you know the location?
     
  3. Mandy Jayne

    Mandy Jayne Active Member

    I believe he was in the 4th Essex. Definitely a TA branch. He was captured either on Hill 112 or in Etterville. He was in the 4th Dorsetshire when he was captured. He was in the 43rd Wessex. Does that mean wherever the 43rd Wessex went, the 4th Dorsets went too? I am totally confused by the whole thing :/
    A transfer between the Regt's is entirely possible! :)

    ETA, confused because the book, "The Wessex Fighting Wyverns" lists the actions of the 43rd & the 4th Dorsets separately on occasions.
     
  4. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Let's start at the beginning.

    There were two separate battalions of the 4th Essex: 1/4th Essex & 2/4th - the latter mainly supplying drafts of reinforcements to other units. I suspect that your grandfather was originally in the 2/4th but without seeing it on paper we'll never know.

    Units: from small to large:-

    a) Battalion: 1/4th Essex and 2/4th Essex, 4th Dorsets and 5th Dorsets were all battalions.

    b) Regiment: 1/4th and 2/4th were members of the Essex Regiment. 4th and 5th Dorsets were both part of the Dorsetshire Regiment. The regiment is said by many to be like a family with various branches that need not be anywhere near each other during war time.

    c) Brigade: a much larger formation assembled from multiple infantry battalions (usually 3) alongside additional supporting and commanding units. 130th Infantry Brigade is one such example.

    d) Division: a very large formation (a layman might label it an army) made up of multiple brigades with artillery and a host of supporting units too varied to list. 43rd (Wessex) Division was one such.

    Accordingly, your grandad could have been a soldier in the 4th Dorsets, which was part of 130th Infantry Brigade, which was part of the 43rd (Wessex) Division.

    Without a doubt, the best idea is to apply for a copy of his service records. If somebody else doesn't do so first, I'll call back and post a link detailing how.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2016
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  5. Mandy Jayne

    Mandy Jayne Active Member

    Charley, thank-you very much for that. Very informative! No need for the link to applying for records. I am doing some research online.
     
  6. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    What was your Grandfather's name? There were a number of members of 4th Dorsets shown as "Missing" for 10th July 1944 - this followed fighting at Maltot in Normandy. If he was initially in the Essex Regiment I would expect his service number to be in the range 5998*** to 6076***
     
  7. Mandy Jayne

    Mandy Jayne Active Member

    He was John Elvin. 6014543. P.o.W 81269
     
  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, British Prisoners of War, 1939-1945
    Name: J Elvin
    Rank: Private
    Army Number: 6014543
    Regiment: Dorsetshire Regiment
    POW Number: 81269
    Camp Type: Stalag
    Camp Number: VIII-C
    Camp Location: Konin Zaganski, Poland
    Record Office: Infantry Record Office, Exeter
    Record Office Number: 22

    TD
     
  9. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Mandy, do you know anything about his location/movements while still in the Essex Regiment? And/or the year he enlisted?

    I have the regimental history to hand, so we may be able to ascertain whether he was with the 1/4th or 2/4th.
     
  10. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    Mandy

    You will find his entries on the various Casualty Lists on Find My Past. It is also worth looking at the name "Elwin" where his name appears on the Fallingbostel Lists
     
  11. chrisgrove

    chrisgrove Senior Member

    Hi
    It would appear from the above that he was indeed originally in the Essex Regiment. However, 2/4 Essex never left UK, and 1/4 Essex went off to N Africa in 1941 (OK, via W Africa) and spent the rest of the war in that area (like N Africa, Cyprus, Italy and Greece).. One has to assume that he transferred, whether voluntarily or not, to the Dorsets before the 1/4 Essex left UK in early 1941.
    5 or 1/5 Essex and even 2/5 Essex (possibly also TA battalions) also went off to the Middle East in 1940/41, though 5 Essex came back to NW Europe in March 1945, so it is unlikely he was with them.
     
  12. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    The 1/4th was asked to 'slim down' to a lower establishment prior to their move overseas in at the start of Sept 1940.
    Pure speculation, but he could have been one of the men transferred then.

    Edit: on 31st July 1940 they were informed that they had to reduce numbers from 38 Officers & 908 O.R.s to 21 Officers and 752 O.R.s.
     
  13. Mandy Jayne

    Mandy Jayne Active Member

    Thank-You everyone :)
    @Charley I don't know anything about his time in the Essex Regt. Except that he joined up with them. The date I have for joining up is August 28th, 1939. Somewhere I've picked up that he was in the 4th Batt of the Essex, but I'm not sure where I got that information from. I know that he served in the Homeguard. I *think* that was with the Essex Regt 2/4 Batt.
    @horsapassenger; you managed to get a lot more info from Find My Past than I did!
     
  14. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    Mandy
    Search on his service number rather than his name!!
     

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