Escape from Camp 78 Italy ( Sulmona) then to ??? help needed please..

Hello everyone - I am new to this site and am trying to find out where my dad and two friends went after escaping from Sulmona in 1943, then being recaptured by the Germans and put on a train to be sent to Germany.
I know that he and two friends ( Names are BURLES, FOWLER & BLENKINS ) escaped from that train through a window in the truck and then "made their way into the mountains and stayed as CASA MARGE( MARCE?) . Owing to Fascist Activity they then moved to EL ( IL?) DOLIO where they lived for nine months before moving to Todi in Jun 44 and meeting up with British Troops."
I have a hunch that they may have been mentioned on page 132 of Iris Origo's book War in Val D'Orcia . ( but this could be wrong..)
I am visiting Sulmona in April this year and would dearly love to find and meet descendants of the family's that saved them.
All help much appreciated.

 

Hi,

Forum member vitellino (Janet) has an interest in POW in Italy so she may be able to assist.

If you haven’t already looked there may be Escape & Evasion reports held at the UK National Archives for the 3 men - presuming they were British Army. It may help members to help you if you post full names, regiment & army service numbers.

Service records released by UK MOD will have very little about your fathers POW experience ((usually one line stating date of POW and another entry “now no longer POW)but you may want to apply to Swiss Red Cross later this month when the next enquiry window opens.

Requests for information about people held during Spanish Civil War or Second World War: Quarterly limit reached

You’ll need to be quick off the mark at opening time 24th Jan when an online drop down application form will be seen. You need to complete and submit it speedily as the enquiry window will close due to the limited capacity being filled within a couple of hours.

It’s a free service. In pre Covid times you would get a written reply through the post not less than 4 months after submitting the enquiry.

Good Luck.

Steve

 

Thank you very much. I didn't know about the Swiss Red Cross !!! I have already applied for my fathers service records - Apparently there's a years backlog!

My dad was Bernard Albert BURLES ( BA) Lance Bombardier 104 Royal Horse Artillery, 414 Battery. Service Number 864023.

Alwyn FOWLER B99691 Gunner Alwyn Everard Fowler 104 E Yorks regiment, RHA 7 armoured Division.

George ANTHONY Blenkins ( Known as Tony) Signalman , Royal Corps of Signals, 2572967

I am optimisitic!

 

You’re welcome.

Members with access to findmypast should be able to find dates of their individual
capture and release (“no longer in German hands” is the phrase used) in the official Casualty lists.

Likewise it should be possible to find the RA men in the RA Attestation Registers also available on findmypast.

My home membership of both Ancestry & FMP through my local library has recently lapsed as both organisation’s have discontinued the facility “now that the pandemic has ended or I would provide the details myself.

Steve

 

Hello Sarah Jane,

I will see what I can find. My experience is that the Swiss records don't go beyond the camps in which the men were held. If they had been recaptured and sent to Germany the only camps that would appear in their report would be the last in Italy and the new one in Germany. If they were recaptured after the armistice of 8 September 1943 and put in a transit camp to await transfer to Germany, as in your case, the name of the transit camp won't appear.

I have just checked Iris Origo's book - why do you think they were on the train that was bombed at Allerona? If they escaped from this train and eventually made their way to Todi that helps to narrow down the field a bit, but the train was bombed on 28 January '44 and the Allies arrived in Todi during the second week of June '44 so they were only on the run for four and a half months, not nine. If you are sure about the nine months then I would be inclined to think that they were caught soon after leaving Sulmona from where they went into the Appenines mountains, moving across to Todi in the spring.

The problem is that the place names you have given don't help a lot. Casa Marge (?) is probably a farm. Where did you get these names from? What documentation do you have? I know the Todi area very well - I lived in Umbria for twenty five years. We could try a letter to the local press - just give me the word and I will write one.

In the meantime the only place you are likely to find out anything is from their Escape and Evasion Reports, if they survived. I will now check the National Archives site.

Best wishes,
Vitellino.

Incidentally Gunner Fowler's number is 899691.

 

I have turned up Gunner Fowler in National Archives Discovery and have attached the report, which is a recommendation for an award.

There is no Escape and Evasion Report for any of the three, unfortunately.

Most E&E reports have an appendix which lists the names of the families who helped the escapers.

It seems to me Sarah Jane, that this recommendation is your source of information, as it gives the two place names you mention.
I will have a look for these places, but I fear that the names are inaccurate.

Best wishes,

Vitellino

 

Thank you both. To Tullybrone - I have the attestation Registers for my Dad and Alwyn, cant find Tony's but am not sure its that relevant. I have full membership at Ancestry ( so can assist others if required?) and have recently rejoined findmypast - but only on a monthly basis. I also have a months subscription to Forces War Records if that helps anyone. ( I will cancel it after this month).
So I know when they were initially captured then when they left Sulmona , then when they reappeared at Todi.

to vitellino - again thank you. I have inadvertently confused you. The train they escaped from was not bombed when they were on it at least. I also don't think they went to a transit camp ( but may be wrong) but were on a train possibly taking them to a transit camp or Germany as the final destination.( See attached documentation).

Iris refers ( on February 27th 1944?) to a peasant from a remote farm on Monte Amiata, Fonte Lippi going to see her regarding the plight of 3 POW's he had been looking after. Originally 4 but one had been recaptured near to Cassino. She describes their plight and the bravery of the Italian peasant ( farmer) in detail. The edition I have is a 1956 Penguin edition.

I Have attached the documentation that I have. The postcard was in between the pages of Iris's book between page 132 and 133 (in the Penguin Edition) .

I can see how I made the mistake about Gnr Fowlers Service number and I suspect that there are other "typos" in the document.

I haven't been able to find anything on the National Archives site but could visit if I need too.

Grateful thanks,

Jane

 

To vitellino - does the name Rev Don Fernarndo Battisti, Parish Priest of Quadro di Todi mean anything to you? Its possible I may also have his photograph? (Attached)

 

Sarah Jane,
Welcome to the forum - you will find, as per the replies already, that there are many knowledgeable people here that are only to happy to help. Hope that you enjoy your discovery journey.
I know that without this forum I would not have found the details of my fathers journey and I was lucky enough to follow in his footsteps pre covid.

 

Sarah Jane,

Thanks for the postcard.

Are you coming to visit /trying to find the family at Todi? The writer of the postcard was Minnie Mazzocchi Alemanni. Perhaps the family is still around in the Todi area. I don't know anything about the priest but it should be relatively easy to find out. I got the impression that you were looking for a family near to Sulmona.

Now, about transit camps. As you are certainly aware, the whole camp walked out at Sulmona but unfortunately a number were recaptured. It was German practice all over Italy to put the recaptured escapers in a transit camp until a 'trainload' had been formed. The POW camp at L'Aquila (102) was used as a transit camp in late September/early October '43 for men picked up in the Abruzzi.

The route taken by the train towards the north would have been L'Aquila, Terni, Orte, Orvieto, Chiusi, Arezzo.... there is no way of knowing exactly where he escaped, I imagine.

Was the Origo book your father's? Would he have put the postcard between those pages?

Lastly, have you already booked your visit? Are you aware that we have a state of emergency here due to last until 15 June?

Vitellino

 

Found them! The Mazzocchi-Alemanni family at Campi, Todi.

I have also found Doglio, which is near to Campi. Quadro is in the same area.

Mazzocchi Alemanni Magdalena e Muzio Azienda Agricola a Todi (06059) - Aziende agricole

 

Dear vitellino . I too thought I was looking for a family near Sulmona, hence why I have booked an apartment there for 5 days!!!!! So that may have to change.
Re State of Emergency - I didnt know the specifics but am just hopeful ...........
The Origo book was my Dads yes . and I believe that the placing of the postcard was not accidental!

Your last post is VERY exciting..........
I have reviewed some of my Dad's letters - which were channelled through the Vatican! By the looks of it and I vaguely recall some of this it was just he and Tony Blenkins at the end and they were going to try and make for Switzerland .
Any suggestions as to what I should do now. ? I dont speak or read Italian at all.

Goodness me....

 

Send me a private message and I'll give you my email address.

 

A massive, massive thank you to everyone who responded on here . I am now in touch with the grandson of the family who looked after my Dad and his friends, and will be meeting him in Rome in April. I will also be able to visit the very house he was kept safe in. This is just fantastic and so emotionally heartwarming. Thank you all.

 

Special thanks to vitellino who wouldnt let me give up!

 

Almost unbelievably, and with a lot of nudges and prompts from vitellino and help from others too, oh and finally facebook! I found the great grand daughter of the author of the postcard send in 1946 to my father from the family who "hosted" him during the war....
I am meeting with her father - the grandson in Rome in April ! He has also arranged for my daughter and I to be taken round the very house (Manor House!) that dad was sheltered in.
We have also established communication with the Bishop of the area , and they are searching their archives.
THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH.

Oh and vitellino - it appears that they left the train at /around Orvieto Station ...

 

Do we know in which month? I still have a hunch that they may have escaped from the bombed train before it got to the bridge at Allerona....

 

I dont know - but may get to know......

 

Sorry, I should have referred to my earlier post. You will now get to know exactly how long they were with the family and this will enable you to definitely rule out the bombed train, which in any case left from Fara Sabina and not from L'Aquila.