England invaded 1940 ?

Discussion in 'Axis Units' started by graeme, Jun 29, 2013.

  1. graeme

    graeme Senior Member

    Hi

    Im researching Heinrich Poncke who is buried in Cannock Chase German War Cemetery in Block 1 Grave 151.

    Evidently Poncke was washed ashore at Littlestone-on-Sea, Norfolk during Monday 21 November 1940. Should be October (sorry)

    Googling him I found the following sites which allude to Germans being found that month 'burnt from the waist down' having taken part in an 'invasion'



    http://www.psywarrior.com/DeceptionH.html

    http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=59133.0

    http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=cgeiCq6luxoC&pg=PA117&lpg=PA117&dq=Heinrich+PONCKE&source=bl&ots=k_QemUPz2I&sig=VKLLxQ2d-8ey9nxz-0zwg0s4mX8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=dKDOUaWiGI6v4QT674HoAQ&ved=0CEIQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Heinrich%20PONCKE&f=false


    Does anyone know anything about this incident at all ??


    Regards,

    Graeme
     
  2. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    It never happened. There never was an invasion. No enemy trod on the British mainland EVER.

    I have no doubt that there are a great many that would be happy to sell their books if they had an aura of authenticity about them
     
  3. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    The date of death of Poncke is given as 20.10.1940 on the CWGC 'database'. Rather odd that a date can be fixed for a body washed ashore.
     
  4. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    UK German (identified) burials;

    Sept 1940 240 total - 51 German Army.
    Oct 1940 83 total - 15 German Army.
    Nov 1940 116 total - 20 German Army.
    Others are mostly German Air Force. Most, but not all, in Cannock,
     
    dbf likes this.
  5. graeme

    graeme Senior Member

    Hi Geoff,

    Sorry, For some reason I typed November, it should, of course, read October 1940.

    many thanks for that, the 20th is the date recorded on his headstone. I wonder if he was found early morning 21st and an assumption made he died the day before ?

    Re your list for October 1940, it is 'spookily' close to the ten mentioned as being 'found' burnt.

    Regards,

    Graeme
     
  6. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    There's a few old threads on here to do with possible invasions if I remember correctly?
     
  7. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    On phone at the mo, so fiddly to search/link, but if you search 'shingle street' on here you might find some discussion in the rough area.
     
  8. graeme

    graeme Senior Member

    Hi

    yep, been discussed before, and in some detail.

    Basically, I'm looking at the burials in Cannock Chase and Poncke's name cropped up. IF 10 other men were washed ashore (for whatever reason), I was just wondering if they, too, were in Cannock Chase,

    Regards,

    Graeme
     
  9. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    It never happened. Perhaps in the fevered mind of some American journalist.... It comes in the same class as UFOs. IF it had happened it would have been revealed many years ago, under the thirty year rule. Then ask this...What is the purpose of keeping this imagined invasion a secret?

    IT never happened .... The public would have known. It is rather like telling that the German public never knew about the hundreds of concentration camps.. Or what went on there You cannot hide it Service people go home and talk...It never happened.. But it is good for a laugh I suppose, or something to talk about.
     
  10. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Brian

    The Germains never landed in England in WW2.

    End of story.

    Our only problem is trying to convince others of the truth of that statement and that, I fear, would be a complete and utter waste of our time and effort.

    Have a good day !

    Ron
     
  11. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    I see no problem with the original query - trying to ascertain circumstances of an individual's burial, linking information already found on the internet in order to save time for members responding. If not already the case, it should be noted that one of the links is headed Deception and Disinformation and is about Psyops.

    I am curious to know the background to Geoff's monthly burial figures though. And it should be noted that Cannock chase is after all a concentration cemetery .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannock_Chase_German_war_cemetery

     
  12. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    From the first link:

    Later that same month, troops were dispatched to Folkstone to search the beach between Hythe and St Mary's Bay for dead Germans. About a dozen were found, all wearing field-grey Wehrmacht uniforms. Some were burned from the waist down, and all seemed to have been in the water for some time. On 21 October the corpse of a German anti-tank gunner, Heinrich Poncke, was recovered from the beach at Littlestone-on-Sea. This was reported in the press and by the BBC.

    My parent live there and there are many old timers that have lived there through the war, I'll get them to ask their neighbours if they remember anything. Anyone found any files at Kew? I'm happy to copy them if anyone knows the ref's as I'm ever so slightly intrigued :)
     
  13. graeme

    graeme Senior Member

    Hi dbf,

    Cheers, many thanks for that.

    Perhaps I should not have headed the thread as I did. I was merely curious, IF 10 other men were found and I am NOT saying they were) are they buried in Cannock Chase as Poncke is,

    Regards,

    Graeme
     
  14. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    Fleming discusses the "failed invasion" in considerable detail...and notes that although Winston was forced by the rumours to address the matter TWICE in the Commons, and ordered a proper investigation - when Military Intelligence officers went to the coast and started asking around, they ALWAYS found that it had happened "just up the coast" somewhere else, or the bodies were found by an officer/unit that had "just been posted away" and it turned into a wild goose chase.

    It's also worth noting that there were a number of German embarkation exercises on the French coast that resulted in considerable loss of life amd materiel...combine those with fastflowing currents and tides...!
     
  15. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Hi Ron ...How true.. Convincing anyone once the seed has been sown?

    What surprises me is the idea that it would not have become common knowledge. Summers here Ron. Hooray!!!!
     
  16. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Graeme,

    I think you might have a tough time tracking burials, certainly without names.

    Volksbund search engine is useless for this type of research, ie incomplete information. Poncke doesn't seem to be recorded on their site.
    http://www.volksbund.de/graebersuche.html

    http://www.volksbund.de/fileadmin/redaktion/BereichInfo/BereichInformationsmaterial/KGS/Themenhefte/Cannock%20Chase%202013.pdf

    Geoff might have some information which is not on CWGC website, he certainly has more knowledge than I do about these commemorations.

    I believe it is not CWGC policy to list these casualties ...
    http://www.cwgc.org/find-a-cemetery.aspx?cpage=1

    As for other possible burial locations, from same wiki link
     
  17. RAFCommands

    RAFCommands Senior Member

    The CWGC holds registers of all German graves that it administers.

    They are not searchable in the online database but can be supplied in searchable format if requested.

    Searching for 1940 and German Army gives only two hits buried in the UK

    HENKER, WALDEMAR, 04-Nov-1940, BRIGHTON CITY CEMETERY (BEAR ROAD)
    PONCKE, HEINRICH, 20-Oct-1940, CANNOCK CHASE GERMAN MILITARY CEMETERY

    The remaining 9 German Army graves for 1940 are in the Channel Islands at Fort George as noted by dbf.

    Hardly an invasion and for any burns from oil defences I would have expected burns from the waist up rather than waist down unless they were floating upside down.

    Regards
    Ross
     
  18. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    Yes, but as noted in post #11, it was a concentration cemetery, so original burials could be elsewhere.

    I used this:

    http://www.********.co.uk/cgi-bin/ntse.php ;)
     
  19. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    Only 2 and 9 ? something wrong there.
     
  20. RAFCommands

    RAFCommands Senior Member

    From the register supplied

    Total German graves 1940 - 768

    German Air Force -712
    German Army - 11
    German civilians - 10
    German Navy - 35

    Regards
    Ross
     
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