Originally posted by Kiwiwriter+Jul 20 2005, 11:46 PM-->(Kiwiwriter @ Jul 20 2005, 11:46 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-adrian roberts@Jul 19 2005, 07:08 PM I think the comments about both Eisenhower's and Patton's racial backgrounds makes it clear where this disinformation comes from. Presumably we are concluding that this disinformation is the work of extreme right-wingers or even Nazi sympathisers. Interestingly, the website concerned seems to be about environmental issues. I only scanned through it quickly but the other articles seem to be the standard Politically-Correct, environmentally aware stuff. Most environmentalists are nice, well-meaning, idealistic people, whether you believe that their solutions are practical or not. So, what has happened here? Have the neo-Nazis infiltrated the environmentalist movement? Did the site editor just not read it carefully enough, and miss the ending with the stuff about Aryans and Jews? (Was Eisenhower actually a Jew?) Or are there some extreme environmentalists who hate the Western Establishment so much that in trying to discredit the heroes of that Establishment they are prepared to align themselves with neo-Nazis? I imagine most youngsters won't get taken in by the Aryan/Jew stuff, but they may well learn to distrust those who won them their present Freedom. Adrian [post=36644]Quoted post[/post] Actually, neo-Nazis are trying to infiltrate the environmentalist movement, for a number of reasons. One is that it contains a violent extreme, and the Nazis want to tap into that. The other is that it opposes the existing political-cultural order, and the Nazis certainly want to tap into that. Environmentalists dislike large corporations as polluters, Nazis dislike large corporations as being part of the Jewish conspiracy. There is also the recruiting factor...the biggest barrier neo-Nazis face in trying to gain ground and adherents is the Holocaust, which is a big reason they deny it. Denying it also enables them to paint the victims as being evil, and also enables them to talk about it and obsess withit, so they can feel the vicarious thrill of being connected to a movement so large, so powerful, and so all-conquering that it could commit genocidal massacre on a horrific scale -- and be considered in the rigth for doing so. The neo-Nazis most want to have that power and authority, because having any kind of power or authority in their own lives is something they utterly lack. So the Nazis push their anti-government stand as being pro-environment -- a white nationalist society will keep the environment clean, unlike their enmemies -- in recruiting campaigns. It enables them to skate past the Holocaust to some degree. It's astonishing how clever the fools who run neo-Nazism are. [post=36671]Quoted post[/post] [/b] I am glad to see that the subliminal subtlety of the infiltration of "respectable" groups did not go un-noticed. Achieving a place on the boards amongst the "respectable" groups allows them to associate their cause with the areas the younger and educated members of all communites are taught to respect as being good for our planet. Neo-Nazism groups have not lost their hate of the Jews and the establishment, they have just changed their tactics to suit the times. Twenty years hence they will have the younger members of our communities believing the 300,000 Jews that really died during WW2 had all signed voluntary Euthanasia agreements with Hitler and the evidence was destroyed in the fight for Berlin.
Originally posted by adrian roberts@Jul 19 2005, 04:08 PM Presumably we are concluding that this disinformation is the work of extreme right-wingers or even Nazi sympathisers. [post=36644]Quoted post[/post] I noticed part of the story shifted Soviet responsibility for the deaths of many Germans after the end of WW II on to American shoulders. It could be that a Russian white-power group was responsible for this smear.
Perhaps the Russian nationalists, but mostly it's neo-Nazis and their "moral equivalency" campaign. They try to indict the British and Americans as the "real" war criminals, through this smear of Ike and the bombing of Dresden. Neo-Nazis are the most Orwellian thing I've ever seen...blaming the victims and painting them as liars, cheats, and thieves.
Originally posted by Dac+Jul 21 2005, 06:39 PM-->(Dac @ Jul 21 2005, 06:39 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-adrian roberts@Jul 19 2005, 04:08 PM Presumably we are concluding that this disinformation is the work of extreme right-wingers or even Nazi sympathisers. [post=36644]Quoted post[/post] I noticed part of the story shifted Soviet responsibility for the deaths of many Germans after the end of WW II on to American shoulders. It could be that a Russian white-power group was responsible for this smear. [post=36704]Quoted post[/post] [/b] The East German government was one of the sources for incorrect inflated figures for the number of Germans killed in the Dresden bombing raids. The only motive I can think of would be to seek to undemine the west's claims to moral integrity. The figures they quoted were not, incidentally, in any way supported by the primary sources intheir own archives, which are now open to researchers.
Originally posted by Kiwiwriter@Jul 22 2005, 09:44 AM Perhaps the Russian nationalists, but mostly it's neo-Nazis and their "moral equivalency" campaign. They try to indict the British and Americans as the "real" war criminals, through this smear of Ike and the bombing of Dresden. Neo-Nazis are the most Orwellian thing I've ever seen...blaming the victims and painting them as liars, cheats, and thieves. [post=36759]Quoted post[/post] This is the sort of thing that went on in Germany after WW I, when many Germans were convinced their army was never defeated in the field, but was sabotaged from within Germany. This led directly to the atrocities of the Nazis. Lets hope they don't ever get another chance.
Originally posted by angie999+Jul 22 2005, 01:18 PM-->(angie999 @ Jul 22 2005, 01:18 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by Dac@Jul 21 2005, 06:39 PM <!--QuoteBegin-adrian roberts@Jul 19 2005, 04:08 PM Presumably we are concluding that this disinformation is the work of extreme right-wingers or even Nazi sympathisers. [post=36644]Quoted post[/post] I noticed part of the story shifted Soviet responsibility for the deaths of many Germans after the end of WW II on to American shoulders. It could be that a Russian white-power group was responsible for this smear. [post=36704]Quoted post[/post] The East German government was one of the sources for incorrect inflated figures for the number of Germans killed in the Dresden bombing raids. The only motive I can think of would be to seek to undemine the west's claims to moral integrity. The figures they quoted were not, incidentally, in any way supported by the primary sources intheir own archives, which are now open to researchers. [post=36763]Quoted post[/post] [/b] According to the Evans report for the Irving-Lipstadt trial, the Dresden figures were inflated by Goebbels and his staff. They merely slapped a "zero" on the figure of 25,000 dead, to make it 250,000 dead. Creative accounting. <_<
Accounts of a Forgotten Army For those of you with teh British history Channel, "Accounts of a Forgotten Army" dealing withe five million german POWSs in American hands is b eing shown today at 1900 - 2000
things i think are garbage are Beever hollywood and american films on ww 2 touchstone also make me puke. a good movie to watch is Toro Toro Toro. GREAT authors are Jim Winchester, Arthur Bishop, Field Marshal Lord Carver, Mark Zuehlke, Robert Jackson, and Chris Chant. there are others but i can't find them right now.
The German's I have read about all said they were treated very well in the camps. Said they were given food, water, and treated in a friendly manner. I think there are, for the most part, two types of "junk" on the web, exaggeration and all out falsehoods. The all out falsehoods are when the junkmen remain anonymous.
