Egypt. 10th June 1940

Discussion in 'North Africa & the Med' started by DavidW, Dec 16, 2014.

  1. MarkN

    MarkN Well-Known Member

    Do you have a particular date in mind?
     
  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Thread title says 10th June 1940 .
    ;)
     
  3. MarkN

    MarkN Well-Known Member

    Silly me. :(

    Only read the post itself....

    I shall take myself off to the naughty corner and stand with my nose lightly touching the wall for the next 4 hours hoping my neighbours don't bang their doors too greatly and cause movement off the wall.
     
  4. MarkN

    MarkN Well-Known Member

    Before I commence punishment drills, worth noting Jolsen lists 13 (excl. those under 7 Armd Div/Indian cmd) as of 30 June 1940.

    Differing to that stated above..
    He has 1 Essex in the Sudan and 1 Royal Sussex only detatching 22 Nov 1940.
     
  5. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Hi Mark.


    Thanks for that. Can you clarify where Joslen puts 1 Royal Sussex on 30th June. It's three weeks later, but still of interest to me.
     
  6. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    1st Battalion, The Royal Sussex Regiment

    23rd Infantry Brigade – 3 September 1939 to 14 August 1940
    The battalion served under the 23rd Infantry Brigade at Moascar on the Suez Canal in Egypt until August 14th, 1940.
     
  7. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Thank you David.

    And a belated thank you for that massive piece on 2nd H.L.I that you posted before Christmas!
     
  8. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    1st Sussex would seem to complete the set at 14.

    Thanks to everyone involved.
     
  9. MarkN

    MarkN Well-Known Member

    Be careful!

    Joslen suggests you have to take 1 Essex off your list - so you're back to 13.

    1 Essex replaced 1 Cheshires in Sudan between Sep 1939 and Jan 1940.


    30 June 1940, 1 Sussex is under cmd 23 Inf Bde in the Delta according to Joslen.


    David, ALL Joslen orbats are available to download in pdf format from the Nafziger Collection.
     
  10. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Mark.

    Thanks.

    Aren't 1 Essex back in Egypt with 23rd Brigade by June 10th?

    I will search the on-line Nafziger collection. I'm not a fan of his work, but if it provides a way of accessing other people's Orbats then so much the better.
     
  11. MarkN

    MarkN Well-Known Member

    Nafziger merely copied other people's work - such as Joslen's book - verbatim. As far as I know, none of it is his work!

    According to Joslen, no.

    And it wouldn't make any sense either. In September, they became part of 10 Indian Inf Bde (in the Sudan) and took part in the Gallabat shenanigens which put a question mark over the regiments reputation for the rest of the war. I believe they returned to Egypt in December.

    Of course, if you can point to a battalion that replaced them in the Sudan for a few months in the spring/summer of 1940, I'll take it back.
     
  12. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    No, you may well be right.
     
  13. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    1st Battalion, The Essex Regiment remained in the Sudan:

    HQ British Troops in the Sudan – 22 January 1940 to 6 August 1940
    On January 22nd, 1940, the battalion was then sent from Suez to the Sudan as a garrison unit, arriving at Port Sudan on January 24th. It arrived at Khartoum-Barracks North on January 25th, with ‘A’ and ‘B’ Companies at Atbara. It moved to its war stations at Atbara on May 1st, 1940, but ‘C’ Company returned to Khartoum on July 6th.
     
  14. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    So David, how about the final list of battalions on 10 June 1940 with their locations?
     
  15. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    David.

    I'll post what I've got, it will be interesting to see about the locations, as I only have some certainties, and a lot of pencilled in possibilities.

    Mark. Interesting to Read of the poor performance of the Essex. I wonder if this was indicative of their fighting quality in general, or just a one off?
     
  16. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    David Ryan et al.

    Here's what I have so far...

    Feel free to suggest edits!

    1). 1st Royal Sussex. Suez. (included as not yet part of 4th Indian Inf Division.
    2). 2nd Black Watch. Location unknown, passing through.
    3). 2nd Yorks & Lancs. Helwan.
    4). 2nd K.O.R.R Lancaster. Disembarking at Suez?
    5). 2nd Highland Light Infantry. Mersa Matruh.
    6). 1st Hampshires. Mersa Matruh.
    7). 1st Welch Battalion. Mersa Matruh.
    8). 1st Cheshire M.G Battalion. Mersa Matruh.
    9). 1st Northumberland Fusiliers. Sidi Bishr.
    10). 1st South Staffs. Helwan.
    11). 2nd Scots Guards. Cairo.
    12). 1st Durham Light. Suez.
    13). 3rd Coldstream Guards. Alexandria?
    14). ??????????????????????????????????????


    Suggested 14th battalion. 1st Battalion D'Infantrie De Marine (B.I.M) It's certainly present by Mid July.
     
  17. MarkN

    MarkN Well-Known Member

    I have just wasted half an hour trying to post Joslen's information as of 30 June 1940.

    I have given up in utter frustration at the software on this forum which indescriminately decides for itself what to delete when I hit the backspace button. Always, not occasionally, this is contrary to the simple request I have placed to move the curser back one space deleting that single character or space.
    It then has the audacity to to indescriminately offer random chunks of text when the undo button is used. In effect, it messes up whatever good work I've done, and then creates an even bigger mess when asked to undo its original random garbage.

    I have given up searching for a work round to this nonsense and have lost interest in retyping every character in every word to the board from other documents (paper and/or electronic).

    Sorry.

    I suggest anybody interested takes themselves off to Nafziger Collection and dowloads the pdf themselves.
     
  18. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    Mark

    for longer posts, type them out in Notes or Word, or even the body of an email, and copy/paste them over.

    All the best

    Andreas
     
  19. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Mark.

    I sympathise, the glitches on this forum can be a right royal pain in A*#@
     
  20. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    To be honest, and not so British-centric, there were a total of 25 infantry battalions in Egypt on 10 June 1940. I have included both motor battalions of the 7th Support Group, all the British and Indian infantry battalions of the 5th and 11th Indian Infantry Brigades, and the infantry and machine-gun battalions of 4th New Zealand Infantry Brigade. Along with a few corrections to DavidW's list, here is what I have come up with:

    1). 1st Battalion Royal Sussex Regiment
    Moascar, Suez
    HQ 23rd Infantry Brigade
    2). 2nd Battalion Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment)
    Ismailia, Suez (1 Company at Kantara, 1 Company at Port Said)
    HQ 23rd Infantry Brigade
    3). 2nd Battalion York and Lancaster Regiment
    Helwan
    HQ 14th Infantry Brigade
    4). 2nd Battalion King’s Own Royal Regiment (Lancaster)
    Helwan
    HQ 14th Infantry Brigade
    5). 2nd Battalion Highland Light Infantry
    Mersa Matruh
    HQ 22nd Infantry Brigade
    6). 1st Battalion Hampshire Regiment
    Moascar, Suez (‘C’ Company at El Daba)
    HQ 23rd Infantry Brigade
    7). 1st Battalion Welch Regiment
    Mersa Matruh
    HQ 22nd Infantry Brigade
    8). 1st Battalion Cheshire Regiment M.G
    Mersa Matruh
    HQ Mersa Matruh Sub-Area
    9). 1st Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers M.G.
    Sidi Bishr
    HQ British Troops in Egypt
    10). 1st Battalion South Staffordshire Regiment
    Helwan
    HQ 14th Infantry Brigade
    11). 2nd Battalion Scots Guards
    Kasr-el-Nil Barracks, Cairo
    HQ Cairo Base Sub-Area
    12). 1st Battalion Durham Light Infantry
    Port Said, Suez
    HQ 23rd Infantry Brigade
    13). 3rd Battalion Coldstream Guards
    Mustapha Barracks, Alexandria
    HQ Alexandria Area
    14). 1st Battalion King’s Royal Rifle Corps
    Buq Buq (‘B’ Company at Sidi Barrani, ‘D’ Company - Libyan Frontier
    HQ 7th Support Group
    15). 2nd Battalion Rifle Brigade
    Wadi Helazin
    HQ 7th Support Group
    16) 2nd Battalion Queen’s Own Cameron Highlanders
    Mena
    HQ 11th Indian Infantry Brigade
    17) 1st Battalion 6th Rajputana Rifles
    Mena
    HQ 11th Indian Infantry Brigade
    18) 4th Battalion 7th Rajput Regiment
    Mena
    HQ 11th Indian Infantry Brigade
    19) 1st Battalion Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment)
    Beni Yusef Camp
    HQ 5th Indian Infantry Brigade
    20) 3rd Battalion 1st Punjab Regiment
    Beni Yusef Camp
    HQ 5th Indian Infantry Brigade
    21) 4th Battalion 6th Rajputana Rifles
    Beni Yusef Camp
    HQ 5th Indian Infantry Brigade
    22) 18th New Zealand Infantry Battalion
    Maadi Camp
    HQ 4th New Zealand Infantry Brigade
    23) 19th New Zealand Infantry Battalion
    Kasr-el-Nil Barracks, Cairo
    HQ Cairo Base Sub-Area
    24) 20th New Zealand Infantry Battalion
    Maadi Camp (1 Coy Heliopolis Aerodrome, 1 Coy Helwan Aerodrome)
    HQ 4th New Zealand Infantry Brigade
    25) 27th New Zealand Machine-Gun Battalion
    Maadi Camp
    HQ 4th New Zealand Infantry Brigade
     

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