I have recently obtained a copy of my late fathers service records. They show he enlisted in December 1942. It appears he was posted to 2/6 batt ESR and left the UK in Nov 43 to North Africa and was the transferred over to 1/6 batt. He left North Africa at the end of Dec to join the MEF. The next entry shows on 14th Feb 44 as SOS MEF to CMY (not sure what that actually means!) The next entry on the 12th May 44 shows wounded in action and then admitted to 72 General Hosp. It appears he was the discharged from the hospital in Sept 44 posted back to 1/6 batt, finally returning back to the UK in Jun 45. It then shows he went to Palestine until Mar 46. Also it appears he was briefly with the Royal Fusiliers before returning to the East Surreys 2nd batt. So now my question - does this all make sense and can anyone give me any more information. Am I right in thinking that 1/6 batt were part of the 4th battle at Cassino which started on 11th May (meaning my father was wounded on the second day)? As an aside my father didn't ever really talk about the war, but always said the scar on his leg was from shrapnel from a mine that had killed the chap next to him, but the records record the injury as a gunshot wound. Thanks in advance. Graeme.
Graeme. You are spot on? 1/6 Surreys were heavily involved in the Fourth Battle of Monte Cassino. They were one of three Battalions of 10 Infantry Brigade responsible for breaking across the Rapido as the lead for 4 British Infantry Division. They were part of the famous Amazon Bridge story. I have extensively studied the route of 1/6 Surreys from Rome to Rimini because of my interest in Maj Walter Brown who won a Military Cross leasing D Company on 21 Sep 44 on the very western end of San Fortunato Ridge in the fight for the Gothic Line. Regards FdeP
Graeme, Just a bit of possible obvious feedback That CMY might refer to (TOS) CMF - (Taken on Strength) Central Mediterranean Force (belatedly confirming the posting to the Italian mainline). My Dad's "TOS CMF" entry came in Nov 1944 - a mere 14 months after he arrived with the jelly fish at Taranto. best
Graeme - both Bexley and Minden have it about right as 10th Inf bde of 4th Indf Div were due to lead the final battle which was known as Operation Diadem to clear the Liri valley and to trap the German Army at Valmontone - their task was to cross by bridges over the Rapido then turn right to meet the Polish Division coming down from the Monastery- didn't happen that way as the bridges were late and only one was built and the schedule went haywire - so Google for "Amazon Bridge" and you can follow what really happened so your father was wounded as they started over the bridge - those wounds were usually referred to as GSW - Gunshot OR Shrapnel - wounds Cheers
Hello, If you list the units and dates he was with them I'll post the units war diaries that may be of interest. Cheers Andy
Thanks for all the information - it has given me some more research to carry out! It's good to know he was probably right about the shrapnel wound (I remember as a kid being fascinated by the scarring on his leg and always asked to have a look) Andy - the copy of the service casualty from doesn't show much detail, but shows him as being posted to 2/6 bat ESR on 25/5/43, on 11/11/43 posted to draft RMPMM (this last part isn't clear), and leaving the UK 12/11 arriving North Africa 27/11/43 and being posted to 1/6 batt before leaving with them on 15/12/43 arriving MEF 23/12/43. The next entry is stamped S.O.S M.E.F to (then handwritten CMY) on 14/2/44, then the following entry on 12/5/44 is stamped wounded in action CMF. He was admitted to 72 Gen Hosp same day then discharged from hospital 7/9/44. ( all this time unit shows as 1/6 batt ESR) ,entry on 25/9/44 is hard to read but appears to say "posted 5 Se IRTO". Entry on 1/11/44 shows posted 1/6 batt ESR, then 10/6/45 transferred to 1 RF, he left for UK 20/6/45 arriving 27/6/45, then on 14/8/45 SOS to 2/Surreys returning MEF 6/12/45. I don't know if this of any help? Would his name and army number be of any use? Thanks again for your replies. Graeme
WO 166/12736 2/6 East Surrey Regiment 1943 Jan.-Dec. WO 169/10302 1/6 East Surrey Regiment 1943 July- Dec. WO 170/1485 1/6 East Surrey Regiment 1944 Jan.- Aug. WO 170/1486 1/6 East Surrey Regiment 1944 Sept.- Dec. WO 170/5077 1/6 East Surrey Regiment 1945 Jan.- May WO 170/5078 1/6 East Surrey Regiment 1945 June - Dec WO 171/5190 1 Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment) 1945 June - Dec. Not sure about the last bit and or 1 RF. They were in NW Europe (France Holland etc and the others are Italy (170) and UK (166)
Blimey Andy, They are talking silly money - I requested a quote for WO 170/1485 1/6 East Surrey Regiment 1944 Jan.- Aug. and they came back with quote of £570, for that kind of money I could visit Monte Cassino! I might have to look into getting upto Kew. The main period I'm obviously interested in is around 12th May 44 when my father was wounded, but it would be nice to see from Nov 42 when he was posted overseas to the end of the war. I guess I'll need a lottery win. Regards Graeme
GraemeB Andy and Lee (PsyWar.org) do excellent and reasonably priced work if you can't get to Kew. Mark
I am sure that anyone with an interest in the East Surrey Regiment is aware of the museum at Clandon Park, a National Trust property just outside Guildford, Surrey. http://www.queensroyalsurreys.org.uk/new_museum/new_museum.shtml During a visit there some years ago I purchased two booklets: 1 – ‘Algiers to Tunis’. This is an account of the 1st and 1/6th Battalions in the North Africa campaign. It contains 56 pages. 2 – ‘The Surreys in Italy’. 72 pages of the 1st and 1/6th Battalions in Sicily and Italy. They are a mixture of extracts from the official history as well as personal accounts, both have many names, photos etc.. As far as May 1944 is concerned there is a chapter on the final battle for Cassino that includes two personal reminiscences, one by Sgt HJ Sames and the other by Lt Col WCE Nash. Both briefly mention the events of 12th May when 1/6 Surreys were involved in the Rapido crossing. The booklet also contains a couple of references, again brief, to Major WBE Brown. Let me know your father’s name Graeme and I will see if he is mentioned. Am sure these sources are well known to you but thought I would post details just in case.
Looking at this website in more detail there are some extracts from the booklets and also some veterans accounts on video: http://www.queensroyalsurreys.org.uk/video/04ww2_europe_n_africa/ww2_europe_n_africa.shtml
Tony56. I met Major Walter Brown in 2003. What a terrific chap. In Feb 12, I stood on the piece of ground near Rimini where he won his Military Cross. He deserved it. Regards FdeP
Graeme, Not withstanding your need to review the detailed war diaries, you might be interested in a just published Pen and Sword book on the East Surreys, written by Bryn Evans - it covers both the 1st Battalion with 78th Div and 1/6th Battalion with 4th Division from Nov 1942 to May 1945. I haven't read it as yet - it only arrived on my door mat this morning but it might provide you with some interesting overview of the campaigns in Tunisia and Italy - there's a lot to pack into 200 pages or so. Not meaning to overly advertise, but thought that you might be interested that it's out there. best
Frank, Yes - just out, so should be plenty around by mail order. Now had the chance to read it through... Overall, a well written overview of the two East Surrey battalions' progress through North Africa and Italy with a number of excellent veterans' accounts. The 1 and 1/6 battalions, of course, fought close by each other in the Liri Valley and near Trasimeno and it welds these two strands of narrative together to ensure a smoothly understood story line, and it does so effectively - although, it helps to have that wider campaign knowledge to trace everyone's movements - there are 11 maps to help (me) to do so. It would be good if "every" regiment had its own war time story published and up to date. The book, of course, also covers Tunisia and Sicily to add to the mix (and my own Dad's story). The book includes a couple of stunning photos of Cassino abbey from nearby and from on top of Mt Cairo taken this winter by our friend Gurdjeff (aka Damiano) - for those alone, the book's worth the admission fee, in my opinion. I know that Bryn Evans is giving a talk at the East Surrey Regiment Reunion in October and also at the Surreys' museum in Guildford later in that month. best
GraemeB - I'm a recently joined member of ww2talk in order to pick up information relating to my dad's service history. I was amazed to read your post as he enlisted in Nov 1942 , and then joined 1st Battalion East Surreys in North Africa before embarking with the 78th Battleaxe Division through the Italian campaign, through Cassino .He was then wounded somewhere in action north of Florence. I too have just received his service record and intend to visit the National Archives to try and put some flesh on the bones of his story. Like so many others who actually went through the hell of that campaign, he was reluctant to talk about it and before he died 10 years ago I felt I only had 'snippets' of my dad's life from that period . He told mum virtually nothing From what he told me , that was understandable. I'm travelling the same route as you regarding finding out more. The information I have gleaned from this site regarding war diaries etc have been invaluable as have the postings from the two veterans of 78th Division. If anyone can offer any guidance / pointers etc. I would be very grateful but in the meantime Graeme, best of luck. I'm looking forward to seeing what the searching brings.
